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[RWC2019][3rd & 4th Place Playoff] New Zealand vs. Wales (01/11/2019)

Umaga's Witness

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In every game our breakdown looks dodgy, like we are about to lose the ball, we barely retain it at times and the ball isn't clean or fast. Been the story of Hansen's last few years.

Needs to be sorted out ASAP next cycle.
I’ve noticed this too, and a lot of the time it’s simply poor cleaning. Retallick has been the biggest culprit. Too often we are trying to pull someone down, sideways, and doing a poor job of it. I understand it’s hard to move someone over the ball if you are trying to drive them forward but the choices of when to drive over vs drag down could be better as dragging down just puts bodies in the way of the halfback. Some of the ball presentation isn’t flash either. It’s sad that one of our best cleaners and ball presenters is a back - alb.
 

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How do you even begin to select him over Lawes, Itoje, Kruis & Launchbury? And that's just the England locks that are way ahead of him!
Don't forget Devin Toner...
 

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Could see Gatland taking AWJ and making him captain of the midweek team but come the tests it's Maro Itoje & James Ryan providing they maintain their current career trajectory...
 

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I know the Welsh selection weren't used to playing with each other and that it was a bounce game, but the Irish, Welsh and Scottish defences all took a what looks like a sizeable backwards step this tournament, with lots of soft tries. I cant offer an explanation for it, maybe just a small sample size skewing my perception?
 

Reiser99

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I know the Welsh selection weren't used to playing with each other and that it was a bounce game, but the Irish, Welsh and Scottish defences all took a what looks like a sizeable backwards step this tournament, with lots of soft tries. I cant offer an explanation for it, maybe just a small sample size skewing my perception?
Tbh I think apart from S.A, N.Z and England this hasn't been a great tournament for Tier 1 sides. Some Tier 2 sides like Japan and Uruguay have impressed people and outperformed.
 

Goodey

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I know the Welsh selection weren't used to playing with each other and that it was a bounce game, but the Irish, Welsh and Scottish defences all took a what looks like a sizeable backwards step this tournament, with lots of soft tries. I cant offer an explanation for it, maybe just a small sample size skewing my perception?
Wales conceded 3 tries total against Australia and South Africa. Then the team they put out today is the sort of side that plays against Samoa in the 'rest week' in November, and then they threw the ball around against the All Blacks. I don't think you can make much of a statement about their defence from that one game. Mostly it was good.

Ireland on the other hand I think have taken a step backwards defending this year. They've conceded loads of points.
 

Not Eddie Jones

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Wales conceded 3 tries total against Australia and South Africa. Then the team they put out today is the sort of side that plays against Samoa in the 'rest week' in November, and then they threw the ball around against the All Blacks. I don't think you can make much of a statement about their defence from that one game. Mostly it was good.

Ireland on the other hand I think have taken a step backwards defending this year. They've conceded loads of points.
Er, 4. :oops: 3 vs Oz, 1 vs SA.
 

duncanb

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Having watched game ,I think Wales are at crossroads new coach a few standout names are living on past reputations.
AWJ
North
J Davies
Halfpenny
Tupic.
Whilst decent and were world class not at top top level at this tournament.
I hope Wales sort out issues because a 6 nations must be competitive
Competition improves performance.
 

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Having watched game ,I think Wales are at crossroads new coach a few standout names are living on past reputations.
AWJ
North
J Davies
Halfpenny
Tupic.
Whilst decent and were world class not at top top level at this tournament.
I hope Wales sort out issues because a 6 nations must be competitive
Competition improves performance.
North has been living off past reputation for about 5 years yet were consistently told he's world class. Lack of competition for places just leads to stagnant, uninspiring performances. One thing new Zealand do better than anyone is reward form over reputation
 

Kapa O Pango

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I’ve noticed this too, and a lot of the time it’s simply poor cleaning. Retallick has been the biggest culprit. Too often we are trying to pull someone down, sideways, and doing a poor job of it. I understand it’s hard to move someone over the ball if you are trying to drive them forward but the choices of when to drive over vs drag down could be better as dragging down just puts bodies in the way of the halfback. Some of the ball presentation isn’t flash either. It’s sad that one of our best cleaners and ball presenters is a back - alb.
ALB is quite important to the centre and backline setup now.
 

Larksea

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The AB's are by far the most attacking and running/ball movement orientated of the top tier teams, the job of cleaning rucks can't fall on just a select few forwards. All players have to do some work leaning out rucks if this style is to work. You see wingers and halfbacks cleaning when they need to. This game you saw SBW do a massive lean-out that basically won us a try, Ben Smith is another player that is constantly putting in work at breakdowns. Cane and Retalick and whitelcok are our best traditional cleaners but the ball moves so much they cant be expected to take on every breakdown. And I would say that generally it is working but it's fair to say that against England it was exposed.
 

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Ben Smith played like "Should've picked me last week coach!" LMAOO
 

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Right. All Blacks came 3rd and S Africa won it, after looking a rabble two years ago. So it's that final year that makes the difference.
I propose a NZ media ban on any mention of the 2023 World Cup until 2022. Losses next year will have no relevance on the 2023 World Cup. Lets just enjoy the games for what they are and celebrate the winners, as opposed to viewing every Test match as a mere build up to the next Cup.
 

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Right. All Blacks came 3rd and S Africa won it, after looking a rabble two years ago. So it's that final year that makes the difference.
I propose a NZ media ban on any mention of the 2023 World Cup until 2022. Losses next year will have no relevance on the 2023 World Cup. Lets just enjoy the games for what they are and celebrate the winners, as opposed to viewing every Test match as a mere build up to the next Cup.
Yeah I get that . Obviously teams start building for the next world cup now but results up until that point don't really count for much case in point Ireland for 3 years and by 2018 had hit their peak , England under Eddie started well , then lost a few games and recently picked up form again at the right time this year and Wales basically ha e stayed the same even though we got the slam this year I wouldnt say we were much improved this year over than over the last 3 but we got a bit of bad luck with injuries . You really want to be hitting your stride a year before the World Cup and not peak too soon ala Ireland and SA nailed that perfectly by winning the RC a year out.
 

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Ben Smith played like "Should've picked me last week coach!" LMAOO
He could of played but the result wouldn't of changed , that was the most devasting ,clinical and controlled performance Ive probably ever seen from England
 

ThebigARena

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North has been living off past reputation for about 5 years yet were consistently told he's world class. Lack of competition for places just leads to stagnant, uninspiring performances. One thing new Zealand do better than anyone is reward form over reputation
There's no doubt George is not the same player he was a few seasons ago. Now whether that is down to competition is another matter and we aint exactly blessed with massive depth in that position at the moment . I think it's down to the concussions he's suffered I think he's become contact shy for the fear of it happening again . I'm of the belief that George won't get back to his best and will very likely be replaced by Steff Evans who hasn't always performed great for Wales in the past but with Pivac knowing him well from his time at Scarlets I think he can probably get the best out of him .
 

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Are the New Zealand rugby team trying to understate their place in world rugby?

It's a good move, they seem to be trying to act like we're not the best Which they aren't at the moment..

From what I have seen from the media releases they are trying to be everyday people. A world cup loss in the past would even overshadow the final. This time they have given it to the finalists..
 

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Are the New Zealand rugby team trying to understate their place in world rugby?

It's a good move, they seem to be trying to act like we're not the best Which they aren't at the moment..

From what I have seen from the media releases they are trying to be everyday people. A world cup loss in the past would even overshadow the final. This time they have given it to the finalists..
Understate??

Nah.

The immortals trying to show everyone they are but mere mortals???

Nah.

Why would the Old Blacks be saying things like that?
 

Zerobound

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Understate??

Nah.

The immortals trying to show everyone they are but mere mortals???

Nah.

Why would the Old Blacks be saying things like that?
Cause they don't want to act like that now..

By being nobodies it helps.

Hide away from their failures?
 
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