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[RWC2019][3rd & 4th Place Playoff] New Zealand vs. Wales (01/11/2019)

TRF_heineken

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Cause they don't want to act like that now..

By being nobodies it helps.

Hide away from their failures?
I don't buy that BS!

The AB's doesn't have mental frailties as a team.

They aren't nobodies.
 

MikeTheNative

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Having watched game ,I think Wales are at crossroads new coach a few standout names are living on past reputations.
AWJ
North
J Davies
Halfpenny
Tupic.
Whilst decent and were world class not at top top level at this tournament.
I hope Wales sort out issues because a 6 nations must be competitive
Competition improves performance.
AWJ is more of a symptom of Wale's lack of 2nd row talent coming through. Beard is still young but I'm still on the fence about him, Hill has improved massively over the past few years after being a meme but was injured. Seb Davis has promised a lot but not really had the chance but also has been played at 8 for some reason.
100% agree on North, he's far too often out of form than inform these days. Wales have a number of young exciting wingers that will be taking his place over the next cycle.
I still think JD2 is class, but he's been carrying an injury half the tournament and it had showed.
Halfpenny is still better a better 2nd choice than others at this moment in time, I do agree that you will start to see him phased out a bit.
I believe Tipruic is still top quality, however Wales' tight, low risk forward gameplan does not suit his strengths at all. I thought he looked a lot better in the NZ game as Wales actually tried to play a bit.

There is some serious things that Privac needs to address in the next few years, centre is a real problem where Wales are just simply lacking top players. Watkin has show promise but still not really kicked on at test level, I think the short term solution will just be to turn to another New Zealander, Halaholo at 12, who would really suit a Privac game plan to be fair. One place Wales has fallen behind others the past few years is the tight 5. There hasn't been too many ball carriers to help out a backrow which has also been lacking in that department. Dillon Lewis has really stepped up the past few weeks which is positive but he's still relative newcomer to test rugby. Even more so is Rhys Carre how was thrown in at the deep end but didn't look out of place, I'm pretty sure he now has more Wales Caps than appearances in the Pro 14! 2nd row is another place where Wales are seemingly lacking, especially considering the likes of England and SA. Hill will be fighting with Jenkins for captain but there's no real standout players, as it stands I can't imagine Wales will be going into the 2023 WC with any 2nd rows you could consider world class. As for the back row a fit Faleteau and Jenkins will be a big boost back to the team, although the current crop have played well. One to keep an eye on as well is Shane Lewis Hughes, who will add a bit much needed bulk at 6.
 

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Are the New Zealand rugby team trying to understate their place in world rugby?

It's a good move, they seem to be trying to act like we're not the best Which they aren't at the moment..

From what I have seen from the media releases they are trying to be everyday people. A world cup loss in the past would even overshadow the final. This time they have given it to the finalists..
I to have noticed a relaxed fallout from this failed campaign.

My thoughts and speculation on the really relaxed public and media response to the exit;

The simple explanation on why we haven't come down on the team like a ton of bricks this time around has been simply because the core of the team and the coaching staff have won a RWC prior to this and have a 85% wining record. Plus England clearly beat us on the day, there were no contentious refereeing decisions or missed decisions we could complain about (but the fact we were so badly beaten should be far more of a talking point).

It is strange the lack of critical thinking and acceptance of such a comprehensive loss by the public and media alike. (When motivation was raised by a reporter, they actually had their head bitten off and threatened by Hansen). There's been very little critical analysis of the match or why we haven't been firing this cycle. It's really difficult to find decent tactical information about it all in New Zealand, which is strange since it's our national sport. I was hoping for a dissection of our problems from our pundits and what we could do going forward to fix it. Look at Ireland for example, they have a great channel with 'Off the Ball', with all their ex-pro's and coaches giving it a good run down about what's wrong and how to fix it.

Also, this is the danger of having the coaching staff who previously won a tournament and stays in the job until the next World Cup.

Subconsciously or not, they can hide behind their past achievements and not feel so threatened by failure. The driving force/fire and motivation just isn't there.

You see this in Soccer/Football all the time with previous world cup winners. Too often than not the previous coach will remain taking the team and the previous winner will be knocked out at the group stage or very early in the tournament. (France 2002 group stage, Brazil QF's 2006, Italy group stage 2010, Spain group stage 2014, Germany group stage 2018).

It's a matter of simple sports psychology.

There is also the factor of "being found out". Jones said he knew exactly how the AB's were going to play and gave us a good old fashioned schooling in the breakdown which has been an obvious weak point of Hansen tenure recently.

For me Hansen should've moved on after 2015 or after the Lions series, just to keep the approach fresh and motivation fresh.

I really enjoyed 6 years of Hansen's tenure, but it definitely soured for me post Lions series and up until recently when I realized Steve was no longer as motivated by the fear of failure, nor some of the players for that matter.

Both Hansen and Read said in their final interview "it's just a game of footy at the end of the day" - that made me realize these were two guys who were too comfortable in their job at the very end.
 

Cooper

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Motivation is often found in failure and lost in success.
 

Dizzy

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He could of played but the result wouldn't of changed , that was the most devasting ,clinical and controlled performance Ive probably ever seen from England
No doubt the English played very well and should be commended for dominating the All Blacks in the manner they did. But certain selections definitely could have changed the game. We will never know, but I believe that wholeheartedly. Not ONE single individual, but a few changes definitely.
 

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Both Hansen and Read said in their final interview "it's just a game of footy at the end of the day" - that made me realize these were two guys who were too comfortable in their job at the very end.
That was a long critique that missed the point entirely.

Here's a thought and it could be wrong who knows, maybe New Zealand isn't as rugby mad as the world wants to think we are.
What I think most of New Zealand has realised over the past 10 years is that winning three cups in a row was unlikely at best and that at some point we were going to get caught by the rest of the world.

On top of this Hansen and Read are right it was just one game.

Since rugby coverage became pay per view the average Kiwi has simply turned off, we no longer get up at 2-3am to watch a game we catch the replay the next day, we don't go into depression at a loss, we have effectively moved on.

Still I guess this means the "Chokers" title is up for grabs?
 

Cooper

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That was a long critique that missed the point entirely.

Here's a thought and it could be wrong who knows, maybe New Zealand isn't as rugby mad as the world wants to think we are.
What I think most of New Zealand has realised over the past 10 years is that winning three cups in a row was unlikely at best and that at some point we were going to get caught by the rest of the world.

On top of this Hansen and Read are right it was just one game.

Since rugby coverage became pay per view the average Kiwi has simply turned off, we no longer get up at 2-3am to watch a game we catch the replay the next day, we don't go into depression at a loss, we have effectively moved on.

Still I guess this means the "Chokers" title is up for grabs?

See this is why we went into the World Cup with the wrong attitude/mentality.

Forget about previous tournaments, forget about what we have won, this is a new tournament to prove ourselves!

With the team we had and the opposition not being that ridiculously good, winning 3 RWC's should have happened.

We went in knowing we had won 2 world cups in a row and failure to win this one would be easier to accept.

We had a great coach at the helm who had won it all before, the attitude, application, hunger, preparation, selections and desire wasn't there as this time.

But we've had recent success, so most of the public have shrugged their shoulders and so has the staff and players.

Let's not forget how bad that England performance was and never replicate it again regardless of how many RWC's we've won in a row. The coaching staff and players let themselves down in that game.
 

Zapphod

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See this is why we went into the World Cup with the wrong attitude/mentality.

Forget about previous tournaments, forget about what we have won, this is a new tournament to prove ourselves!

With the team we had and the opposition not being that ridiculously good, winning 3 RWC's should have happened.

We went in knowing we had won 2 world cups in a row and failure to win this one would be easier to accept.

We had a great coach at the helm who had won it all before, the attitude, application, hunger, preparation, selections and desire wasn't there as this time.

But we've had recent success, so most of the public have shrugged their shoulders and so has the staff and players.

Let's not forget how bad that England performance was and never replicate it again regardless of how many RWC's we've won in a row. The coaching staff and players let themselves down in that game.
Nah.
The fact is we have achieved everything that can be achieved, they were the first team to win it, first to defend it and the first to win it three times these are all things that no one else can do.

They never let anyone down at all, they played one bad game and were beaten by a team playing at their best and in a knock out tournament that is always on the cards on top of that England, Australia, Ireland and South Africa have all beaten us in the past so there is no guarantee we were going to beat any of them.
 

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Nah.
The fact is we have achieved everything that can be achieved, they were the first team to win it, first to defend it and the first to win it three times these are all things that no one else can do.

They never let anyone down at all, they played one bad game and were beaten by a team playing at their best and in a knock out tournament that is always on the cards on top of that England, Australia, Ireland and South Africa have all beaten us in the past so there is no guarantee we were going to beat any of them.
Past achievements count for nothing in a World Cup. Who cares if we won it twice in a row previously? It was irrelevant to this tournament.

Putting the loss down to simply losing to a team "playing their best" is just lazy, especially when the game plan and selections went so horribly wrong.

Ironic you were calling me out for settling for mediocrity earlier in the thread.
 
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