Ferrari333SP
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Wonder if you could argue that's an even stronger team than faced England - at least they have more caps than that team
Wonder if you could argue that's an even stronger team than faced England - at least they have more caps than that team
Team Announced
1. Joe Moody (44)
2. Dane Coles (68)
3. Nepo Laulala (24)
4. Brodie Retallick (80)
5. Scott Barrett (35)
6. Shannon Frizell (8)
7. Sam Cane (67)
8. Kieran Read - captain (126)
9. Aaron Smith (91)
10. Richie Mo'unga (16)
11. Rieko Ioane (28)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (56)
13. Ryan Crotty (47)
14. Ben Smith (83)
15. Beauden Barrett (82)
16. Liam Coltman (7)
17. Atu Moli (7)
18. Angus Ta'avao (13)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (29)
20. Matt Todd (24)
21. Brad Weber (4)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
23. Jordie Barrett (16)
strong but i think people like weber could have got a start without fielding a B team and for the love of god couldn't Smith have started at 15 for his last game
Team Announced
1. Joe Moody (44)
2. Dane Coles (68)
3. Nepo Laulala (24)
4. Brodie Retallick (80)
5. Scott Barrett (35)
6. Shannon Frizell (8)
7. Sam Cane (67)
8. Kieran Read - captain (126)
9. Aaron Smith (91)
10. Richie Mo'unga (16)
11. Rieko Ioane (28)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (56)
13. Ryan Crotty (47)
14. Ben Smith (83)
15. Beauden Barrett (82)
16. Liam Coltman (7)
17. Atu Moli (7)
18. Angus Ta'avao (13)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (29)
20. Matt Todd (24)
21. Brad Weber (4)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
23. Jordie Barrett (16)
strong but i think people like weber could have got a start without fielding a B team and for the love of god couldn't Smith have started at 15 for his last game
My point was not that you can't be defensively strong while also having a stylish and effective attack... my point is simply Wales were a shambles for a long time. Under a Gatland we aren't a Shambles... pragmatic, yes; overly structured, yes; negative, yes... clown shoes, thankfully no.
He has done this despite having to work with the products of our regional game which is an absolute mess. He has done this despite the constant in-fighting between the regions and the WRU... and amazingly he has been able to operate within the Welsh goldfish bowl of public scrutiny for over a decade without ever really becoming a pariah.
As I said in my original post, I would love nothing more than for Wales to move on post Gats and be successful while playing a attractive brand of rugby but I'm just all too aware of the realities at play here (think Vern's Scotland and then Toonie's Scotland but on a wider scale). I hope I'm wrong and will be the first to admit if I am.
The main message I wanted to convey though is it seems many younger Welsh fans have very little frame of context when judging Gatland's reign here in Wales. The grass isn't always greener and losing consistently but with style is nowhere near as fun as winning ugly. Gatland should receive many plaudits for the hard and effective work he has put in these last eleven years, not disdain from kids who have only ever known a side competing for honours during his run as Head Coach.
https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/1189207407089606657?s=20
Thought it worth bringing up 'the plate' again.
Well you can speak for yourself on this one.
I actually really dislike this attitude towards the 3rd & 4th play-off game. It often stinks of sour grapes and a sore loser mentality. It gives both teams a good opportunity to finish the season on a high. I remember this attitude in New Zealand towards this game came about after the disappointment in 1999 after losing to France and Taine Randall and John Hart made similar comments towards the game. Yes it's the losers final, yes we would rather be in the final, but it's still an opportunity to beat another good team and finish higher in the pecking order.
I care for the game, I don't want to finish 4th or lose to Wales, I'm sure the team feels the same way. I think it's good to establish who the 3rd best side was and 4th best in the touranment and the game should remain.
I for one am looking forward to the game and relish the chance of watching the All Blacks one more time this year and before some of our greats retire and I want to see them go out on a win.
Well you can speak for yourself on this one.
I actually really dislike this attitude towards the 3rd & 4th play-off game. It often stinks of sour grapes and a sore loser mentality. It gives both teams a good opportunity to finish the season on a high. I remember this attitude in New Zealand towards this game came about after the disappointment in 1999 after losing to France and Taine Randall and John Hart made similar comments towards the game. Yes it's the losers final, yes we would rather be in the final, but it's still an opportunity to beat another good team and finish higher in the pecking order.
I care for the game, I don't want to finish 4th or lose to Wales, I'm sure the team feels the same way. I think it's good to establish who the 3rd best side was and 4th best in the touranment and the game should remain.
I for one am looking forward to the game and relish the chance of watching the All Blacks one more time this year and before some of our greats retire and I want to see them go out on a win.
To be honest the only thing that MATTER
I don't care much for the 3rd place
Sorry I don't agree , the only thing that matters is WINNING nobody remembers who finished 3rd in a tournament, sure if this was track and field then a bronze is good but in a tournament set up whether that's rugby, football or even cricket nobody cares who finished third and nobody remembers , it's a nothing game in a tournament set up..
I think a plate is unfeasible and really stupid when given a moment's thought, it'd have to be done as an opt in sort of thing because many unions wouldn't want to pay or couldn't pay the extra money to stay in the country, no T1 nations would be bothered to enter and it'd be an extra hosting cost that is not going to be attractive to fans in the host nation.
As for this game, seen as the discussion has gotten there, I think this is the first time I'm actually going to watch it and that's purely because NZ are playing and I like their style this year. I see nothing wrong with following boxing in the Olympics approach of giving both losing semi finalists 3rd place. (not that third means anything outside Olympic sports) Forcing Wales to play this game on a five day turnaround is borderline negligent from world rugby in my opinion, there's going to be a lot of broken bodies who need a rest rather than a test match.
Well yeah, but the obvious thing here is that they're knocked out, the season isn't even a quarter done for any of the players and it's the shortest turnaround any team have had to face since the pool stages, it's asking for more injuries.That's knock-out footy for you, it's a test of character and depth, proper squad management and luck with injuries. The Welsh have been unlucky with injuries, sometimes it happens with a team, we were unlucky in 2011 with our first 5's, Ireland unlucky in 2015, but it's just another test to see if you have the character and depth to get results against adversity.
Well yeah, but the obvious thing here is that they're knocked out, the season isn't even a quarter done for any of the players and it's the shortest turnaround any team have had to face since the pool stages, it's asking for more injuries.
If I was in the Welsh camp I'd be hoping not to play, is third place in anything worth risking a chance at winning a pro 14, Heineken Cup, 6 nations etc... No way.
We'll see, as a proud Welshman and rugby fan I hope you're right. My pessimism is founded on experience of the ****-show Welsh rugby was before Gatland. Maybe our house is in order now (maybe)... or maybe Gatland has been the glue that has stopped Welsh Rugby fragmenting into pieces these last 11 years. We shall soon find out.Sorry, I do get your point, I just didn't make my counterpoint very well. What I was trying to say (and making a right pig's ear of it!) is that I don't think Gatland has overachieved with Wales, I think he's underachieved. Had he added more strings to Wales' bow, ie a decent attack, they could have won that QF against Oz, that SF against the Boks, more 6 nations ***les etc. They've had some fine players in his reign and yet I don't feel he's ever really got the best out of them because he has been so limited as a coach. He's had 12 years to develop the team, to progress them, to improve them, but they've been totally static. And I feel that it's the Welsh fans and pundits being grateful for whatever they can get because pre-Gatland there were some lean times that seems to have allowed him to get away with underachieving with Wales for so long.
Or, in other words, I'm with those disdainful kids. Wales should be better for Gatland's departure, not worse.
Dramatic but not unrealistic! There's been a couple NH season enders already in this tournament.That's a tad dramatic. And it's unfortunate for the European players that it's the start of their season and the end of ours, but that'd be unfair on SH teams to scrap the game for that reason. It's only once every 4 years.
Also, I think a lot of them would absolutely want to play and beat the All Blacks, it's also another test in the Welsh jersey, I'm sure the players take immense pride in playing for their country. Agreed the turnaround could be better, I still believe the game should be on the Saturday, final on the Sunday or simply just have the game before the final as a curtain raiser. But World Rugby huh.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/all-...-if-xv-versus-wales-would-have-beaten-england