[RWC2019][Pool A] Round 2 - Japan vs. Ireland (28/09/2019)

[Goodey]

I think that downplays how much Sexton brings this Irish side together. Their whole game is based around his kicking game dropping textbook bombs for chasing and forcing opposition defenders back, or else rushing up to pressure the opposition into conceding. Look at how inpenetrable they looked against Scotland. Ireland don't always play narrow, defensive rugby but what's crucial about Sexton is that he (along with the pack) allows them to do this and still be ruthless.

On top of that, Ireland have a huge drop to their replacement 10s in terms of experience and game management. On Saturday they kicked at 50% and panicked in the last 20. They REALLY missed him.

 

[ncurd]

The humidity and conditions is why I'm amazed no warm up matches were played in Singapore,H Kong or even Japan. I suppose England kinda of had two before key games which might put them in good stead but the effort to acclimatise seams hard.

Hell England's first two games were indoors and they were suffering. Don't think they expected that.

 

[bushytop]

I think that downplays how much Sexton brings this Irish side together. Their whole game is based around his kicking game dropping textbook bombs for chasing and forcing opposition defenders back, or else rushing up to pressure the opposition into conceding. Look at how inpenetrable they looked against Scotland. Ireland don't always play narrow, defensive rugby but what's crucial about Sexton is that he (along with the pack) allows them to do this and still be ruthless.

On top of that, Ireland have a huge drop to their replacement 10s in terms of experience and game management. On Saturday they kicked at 50% and panicked in the last 20. They REALLY missed him.

You make some Goode points but you'd still more than fancy an Irish team with Carty at 10 over Japan if it were at a neutral European venue right?

 

[Goodey]

You make some Goode points but you'd still more than fancy an Irish team with Carty at 10 over Japan if it were at a neutral European venue right?

Sure. And if they play at their best, an Irish side with Carty at 10 could win at Twickenham too. But an Irish side with Sexton in it can play like **** and still win. This one couldn't.

 

[bushytop]

Sure. And if they play at their best, an Irish side with Carty at 10 could win at Twickenham too. But an Irish side with Sexton in it can play like **** and still win. This one couldn't.

Fair comment. I mean, I did concede it had 'some' bearing in my original post... but in my opinion the Irish team looked spent at 25 minutes and that was a larger contributing factor.

I will concede though, if you had Sexton playing a better territorial game plan, pinging Japan backwards consistently... the Irish probably wouldn't have had to work quite so hard.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Having Carty and Farrell as the 10/12 axis made a difference definitely, Farrell was used as a crash ball and nothing else, he hardly even ran a dummy line, Japan didn't have to focus too much on their midfield defence and they blitzed the **** out of us on the outside. I doubt they'd have been doing that against Sexton because the Sexton loop or some mild variation on that would have done damage. Losing Sexton is always going to make a massive difference to Joe's Ireland, the style of play needs strong management and in Sexton you've got a 10 who can make the right decision every phase for about 40 phases, Carty was panicky and trying to force things after 5 yesterday and JC forgot that he was allowed to pass when he came on. So yeah Sexton does make a difference, and it would have been a totally different game with him playing (no chance Japan win the possession battle 70/30 if Sexton is playing for example) but we wouldn't have been cutting Japan open or anything like that.

Anyway three years ago we lost to New Zealand in Dublin because Sexton and Henshaw went off early in the match, there was more than enough time to prepare the team to beat Japan under those circumstances and we didn't.

 

[rugga658]

Super Rugby is dead and should not form the basis of future decisions.

I for one would celebrate not having to watch Australia lose to NZ three times a year.

Super Rugby might be dead in Australia but that's an AUS problem
With the exception of Brumbies, the other 3 AUS teams are really bad
Wallabies move the needle, when theyre good AUS rugby is doing well

Super Rugby will be fine as SuperSport has too much invested as they have investments in SA teams NZ needs the comp as they depend on the TV Money & the challenges of playing SA teams & now the Jaguares

AUS rugby can dream as much s they like about a cross Tasman comp but it's a non starter

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/104613809/new-
zealand-super-rugby-crowds-good-but-south-africa-australia-on-life-support

Super Rugby will be fine from 2021 onwards when it goes back to a Round Robin Format & the garbage Sunwolves are kicked out of the competition

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

The issue is that Rugby is a business. The SR comp is bankrolled by the RC, as the RC teams benefit from development of players through SR. Japan is not in the RC so does not contribute in the same way. They instead got charged a 'fee' to participate in SR, the JRFU decided not to continue paying this post 2020, preferring instead on it's internal competitions to develop players. The fact SA refused to travel to Japan to play them, making them instead play in Singapore shows they were kinda treated like second class participants anyway and may have contributed to them opting out.

The answer may have been to introduce them to the RC, but in an already congested international season, I think the preferred option was not to expand the RC, but to develop the Nations Cup - or what ever they were calling it. We have certain scared NH sides, afraid of promotion/relegation to thank for curtailing that.

Yes, and Tew has been the most vocal in the SH to saying no to Japan. I just think he is fundamentally misreading the financial and entertainment landscape of rugby in his timezone.

Clearly there will be concerns over the conservative nature of the Japanese union, so it would be stupid of me to suggest embracing Japan wouldn't involve risk, and involve detailed planning and investment. But without the short to medium term sacrifice to invest in Japan I think the 'basement is the limit' for SH rugby.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Super Rugby will be fine from 2021 onwards when it goes back to a Round Robin Format & the garbage Sunwolves are kicked out of the competition

You anticipate an upsurge in fan interest after SA and Oz (and likely Arg & NZ to follow) let their internationals chase pay cheques around the globe? Optimism costs nothing I guess.

 

[Hanley!]

Sexton not being on the field can't be an excuse for us anymore. He's been prone to knocks for years now. There was always a very high possibility that he wouldn't make one of our important games in the World Cup. The team should be able to function well without him. And honestly, I don't know that he would have made the difference yesterday anyway. The forwards weren't providing the best platform.

I wonder if we would have done better with a "B" team yesterday. We had a shorter turnaround than Japan by two days and aren't as accustomed to the conditions. The players looked exhausted out there in the second half. If we had started a bunch of guys who didn't play, or only got a few minutes against Scotland, they might have had the energy and drive to get it done.

 

[rugga658]

You anticipate an upsurge in fan interest after SA and Oz (and likely Arg & NZ to follow) let their internationals chase pay cheques around the globe? Optimism costs nothing I guess.

SA produces players by the boatload, no problems there
AUS is a domestic issue, they're irrelevant largely in Super Rugby
Jaguares offer a new market & as well providing good TV times on Sat evening in SA & Sun AM in AUS/NZ

Moreover with SR format changing to a Round Robin Format in 2021
Every game will matter in a tournament that's short & sweet - 14 teams 2 bye per team Tournament lasts 5 months

Japan doesn't matter until they have a legitimate Domestic Tournament They had a chance to build something with Super Rugby & follow model Jaguares did with ARG rugby Instead they used the Comp to fill their team with 2nd rate players Why the hell is the Rugby Championship going to want Japan in the Comp if they can't even get Super Rugby opportunity sorted out Plus Top League clashes with TRC

Moreover there're only so many Spots available for Foreign players in Europe: French have limits on French players (JIFF) as does England with (EQ players) No big deal

 

[TRF_heineken]

SA produces players by the boatload, no problems there
AUS is a domestic issue, they're irrelevant largely in Super Rugby
Jaguares offer a new market & as well providing good TV times on Sat evening in SA & Sun AM in AUS/NZ

Moreover with SR format changing to a Round Robin Format in 2021
Every game will matter in a tournament that's short & sweet - 14 teams 2 bye per team Tournament lasts 5 months

Japan doesn't matter until they have a legitimate Domestic Tournament They had a chance to build something with Super Rugby & follow model Jaguares did with ARG rugby Instead they used the Comp to fill their team with 2nd rate players Why the hell is the Rugby Championship going to want Japan in the Comp if they can't even get Super Rugby opportunity sorted out Plus Top League clashes with TRC

Moreover there're only so many Spots available for Foreign players in Europe: French have limits on French players (JIFF) as does England with (EQ players) No big deal

Lads, please stay on topic as this is a match thread. Talk about the match and don't go off topic.

This is an official warning.








Also, here's another pic for you to giggle at:

 

[Amiga500]

But you looked so composed / structured against the Scots? That no risk style is kryptonite against the ABs who score the bulk of points off turnovers

'thats cos the Scots are utter, utter shite.

 

[Amiga500]

to the irish.
Ireland looked clueless on attack after the 20th minute. is this cos sexton 's absence?

Nope.

We've been clueless on attack for ages.

If its not a pre-set move the players are walked through in training then its entirely reliant on the forwards bullying the opposition into submission.

The running angles, timing and depth of our back line play is shocking. Has been for years.

 

[mania]

japan have shown how to beat ireland. dont let them take the lead. force ireland to chase the game and eventually they'll run out of ideas and implode.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Wee have a record of four wins (unimpressive teams) and three losses (Strong teams, Japan aside, but nothing that'd scare NZ) this year. No one is showing anyone how to beat us, we're just bad.

Not saying Japan are good but any team with hopes of winning this thing should put them away with room to spare whereas Wales and England will put up a fight against the best.

 

[mosfeldt]

Wee have a record of four wins (unimpressive teams) and three losses (Strong teams, Japan aside, but nothing that'd scare NZ) this year. No one is showing anyone how to beat us, we're just bad.

Not saying Japan are good but any team with hopes of winning this thing should put them away with room to spare whereas Wales and England will put up a fight against the best.

The whole year I've been waiting for a "big performance". During the 6N as the weeks went on I kept thinking to myself "Ireland always turns up really well for at least one match in a tournament" and I was certain that we would at least give Wales a real good battle on the last day, but it never happened. We just got walloped. I'm in denial and telling myself now that we're due a big performance and that it will come this WC. There has to be at least one last bang before Schmidt leaves. It would be a really terrible way to end a brilliant coaching career if we stumble into the quarters and get hockeyed by NZ or SA, which I can easily happening right now.

I can't help but feel the players might be a bit Joe'd out of it. They obviously have belief in themselves and their plan and give it everything they have, but they've been playing this tight, risk-free, intense structure game for a while now, and Joe doesn't seem to have been able to develop it any further from last year, which is when his style and game-plan peaked. Although you could argue that it was the lack of our standard game-plan yesterday that cost us the match.

It's hard to know what to think anymore. If we keep Sexton fit I do think we can rev it up one more time. But given our mounting injury list (is it just me or do we seem to injure a lot of players in training?), Samoan physicality and the fragility of some players it's not hard to imagine us starting a QF with Carty and a centre pairing of Aki and Larmour or something. Dark times.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The whole year I've been waiting for a "big performance". During the 6N as the weeks went on I kept thinking to myself "Ireland always turns up really well for at least one match in a tournament" and I was certain that we would at least give Wales a real good battle on the last day, but it never happened. We just got walloped. I'm in denial and telling myself now that we're due a big performance and that it will come this WC. There has to be at least one last bang before Schmidt leaves. It would be a really terrible way to end a brilliant coaching career if we stumble into the quarters and get hockeyed by NZ or SA, which I can easily happening right now.

I can't help but feel the players might be a bit Joe'd out of it. They obviously have belief in themselves and their plan and give it everything they have, but they've been playing this tight, risk-free, intense structure game for a while now, and Joe doesn't seem to have been able to develop it any further from last year, which is when his style and game-plan peaked. Although you could argue that it was the lack of our standard game-plan yesterday that cost us the match.

It's hard to know what to think anymore. If we keep Sexton fit I do think we can rev it up one more time. But given our mounting injury list (is it just me or do we seem to injure a lot of players in training?), Samoan physicality and the fragility of some players it's not hard to imagine us starting a QF with Carty and a centre pairing of Aki and Larmour or something. Dark times.

More or less how I'm feeling. I took hope from 2016 & 2017 which had rocky starts but ended strongly but it's three strikes and out this time for me.

I'll watch, support and hope because I'm a fan and I'll always do that but I've lost faith and don't see any way to recover in time even with Sexy and Henshaw. We don't even have the luxury of anally preparing for either NZ or SA in an attempt to ambush them because we haven't a clue who we'll play.

 

[bushytop]

More or less how I'm feeling. I took hope from 2016 & 2017 which had rocky starts but ended strongly but it's three strikes and out this time for me.

I'll watch, support and hope because I'm a fan and I'll always do that but I've lost faith and don't see any way to recover in time even with Sexy and Henshaw. We don't even have the luxury of anally preparing for either NZ or SA in an attempt to ambush them because we haven't a clue who we'll play.

Ahh... all you gotta do is whack a good lump of vaz up there bro, you won't feel a thing (much) !

 

[BPM]

Let's see what happens. I don't think Ireland have become a poor team overnight and Schmidt is a canny coach.

At the start of the tournament, pretty much everyone had NZ and SA as the favourites coming out of an easy group, so it was always likely you'd face one of them in the QFs.

As you say, you're probably 'due a big performance' and there would be no better time than a knockout game.