[RWC2019][Pool B] Round 2 - New Zealand vs. Canada (/10/2019)

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by TRF_heineken, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. ncurd

    ncurd International

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  3. Gena_ZA

    Gena_ZA First XV

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    At work did not watch the game but followed the score on FlashScore app
    After 60 odd minutes the AB's were leading by 63 and the score stayed that way till the end.
    Did they stop playing or what?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  4. Alex Anghel

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    Does anyone feels like Brad Weber is in a better form than both Aaron Smith and TJ Perenara? His overall running/ruck clearance speed seems to be superior to the other two half backs.

    Very quite game for Ioane, he looked sometimes a bit disinterested. Hard to believe he will step in Bridge/Reece's shoes, bar certain unfortunate injuries.

    Great work off the tee for Richie Mo'unga and overall impressive distribution/attack on the line as well, it appears that he finally settled in the 10 jersey.
     
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  5. Umaga's Witness

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    They stopped clicking, were inaccurate and dropped balls.
     
  6. Crags

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    They played within themselves i reckon. Look at how they started the 2nd half. Bang, bang, bang. They relaxed a little. It was always going to be like that.
     
  7. donmcdazzle

    donmcdazzle First XV

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    Would love to see him against a better team. Definitely gets to the rucks very quickly and his delivery is super fast. Has a ton of pace as well in support, clearly the fastest of the 3. It was an average opposition but he looked miles better than TJP.
     
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  8. Larksea

    Larksea First XV

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    If you look back at my posts I've been saying it for a long time.

    All 3 are great halfbacks, all 3 are in very good form.
    Aaron Smith seems to be locked in as our starter despite his form obviously being a bit off TJ and Brad in super rugby. Recently Smith has been playing very well, the distance and accuracy of his pass has been amazing. He's been making some big tackles and his leadership and experience is a factor. he pops up in the right places. He did totally hash that take on defense against SA in wellington that cost us the Championship. But its one incident in one game you hope he and others learn from that situation.
    BUT HIS CLEARANCE SLOW! Smith constantly takes a step or two before winding up and passing. That's a second or more each phase that allows the defense to get back on the front food. The AB's are trying to unlock rush defenses and IMO that is really not helping.
    TJP is a bit better, he's not as nippy as Smith but the ball isn't in his hands for as long.
    Then there is Weber. He quite obviously clears the ball faster than the other two. It makes a massive difference and IMO it was the obvious difference at the start of the 2nd half when the AB's attack just clicked and we ran in 5 tries, Weber himself running in two of them.
    IMO based on his form this year Weber is maybe the best 9 in the world. Off the back of almost single handed carrying a severely injury ravaged chiefs side into the super rugby finals when they had no right to be there and captaining them as well. His kicking is great, he's holy **** fast, he finishes long range tries. The guys defense is mind blowing. He has great attacking vision. This year his ability to take down big ball carriers with ease has become a trademark of his game. But the big point of difference compared to Smith and TJP for me is that Clearance speed. he gives the backline that extra second or so each phase its so simple but so fundamental.

    The problem is its too late in the game now for this WC, Smith and TJ have had all the gametime for the AB's weber has had ~50min in the like ~7? tests we've had, he was not given a chance and now he wont get a chance to face top tier opposition unless Smith or TJ are injured. I think we saw a hint of what we are missing out on against Canada last night, despite the fact that he hasn't played at all recently he was excellent.
     
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  9. Jabby

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    i hear the comments about smith taking steps before clearing the ball quite a bit at the moment. I just want to add he's the one generally starting against the top teams. The top teams are all using a rush defense against us. I'm sure he's slowed a little, all halfbacks do...but at least some of these steps he's taking are to get a clean pass from the rush.

    its a hell of a lot easier for webber and TJ to shine behind a forward back demolishing a team like canada where their flankers are hanging on for dear life or something off the bench against tired teams compared to RSA where they were flying off after the ball at light speed
     
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  10. donmcdazzle

    donmcdazzle First XV

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    Even against Canada, TJP's passing was average. He may clear it out of the ruck faster than Smith, but his passes are not all that good. against a rush defense, spraying passes around is a massive hindrance.

    The thing that winds me up a bit about Smith is how much he mucks around at the back of a ruck. I get that sometimes you have to slow down to get organised, but sheesh if he is box kicking he takes forever and a day.
     
  11. Icemn

    Icemn First XV

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    dead silence during the haka... gotta love the Canadians.. respect!
     
  12. Larksea

    Larksea First XV

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    I know your a Smith supporter but I Disagree. We saw it against Argentina when Weber finally got on the AB back line finally got some time with the ball and started making progress with the extra space and time they had that was when Weber came on for TJ. I see the exact same thing is happening for Australia. Genia's clearance technique and speed is very similar to Smiths where White is much faster, often passing straight off the ground like Weber does. Also when white does take steps he actually engages with the defense making the inside stop and check him before he passes Genia and Smith are just taking a step or two to the side then winding up for the pass. It just gives the defense a head start and that's why the aussie backline has more time and space with White. Granted there are areas where Genia has been better, kicks in particular. But that intercept try Wales got was a result of that extra time Genia is wasting with the ball.
    The "it's not against top teams" argument isn't valid. It really boils down to this:
    The time from the ball being available to the time it's in the first receivers hands is on average much shorter with Weber. I would say that statement is true regardless of who the opposition is, its the job of the forwards cleaning out to make the ball available. When you get quick ball you need a fast clearance to actually use it to your advantage.
    As I said, the other aspects of Smiths game are excellent right now. His speed around the field and defense has improved. Hes done great work in support. Been involved in some great trys. His passing has been very accurate. I just don't believe we are seeing the full potential of the backline because of the delay in clearance.
    I really don't believe anyone can honestly watch Weber and Smith objectively and tell me there is no difference in clearance speed. I'm tempted to get a stopwatch out and do some stats.

    And as I said, its too late now. Despite being maybe the best 9 in super rugby hes only had 50min for the AB's in 2 appearances off the bench over 7 tests and with only Namibia and Italy before the finals Weber wont get any significant gametime to push for elevation in the pecking order. My Guess is could start against Namibia with Smith off the bench. Then we will see the first team against Italy to run into the finals.

    kind of off topic because none of our halfbacks have poor passing but from all the rugby I've watched IMO clearance speed is more important than pass quality. Or should I say just getting the ball out fast is more important than having the perfect pass.
     
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  13. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    cant really say that when he hasn't started against top teams, all any of that is your opinion and although i'm not arguing with the facts, i come to a different conclusion (opinion).

    I remember reading lots of comments about how crisper things looked when smith came on against tonga, i just think its easier to look good when coming off the bench or starting against teams being dominated up front. TJ looking rusty last night doesn't disprove that, its just as likely he's not at top form

    I will just ad, im a huge Webber fan, use to watch him play for Dunedin, love the fact he still does his sharks celebration, i was always gutted he didn't get more of a shot for otago or the highlanders

    I have no problem celebrating him....just dont think we need to tear down others to do it...I would be more than happy for him to get a start against a top team based on just being on great form
     
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  14. Kapa O Pango

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    Conspiracy theory: Having three Barrett’s on the field caused a glitched in the matrix to force handling errors.
     
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  15. Paulo

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    So, too much talk about halfbacks to read properly (on a lunch break), but looked like it was all about clearance and steps and pass quality. I may missed where the discussion was on box kicking and kicking to space etc. Thats the key to unlocking the rush defence. We tried the fast clearance and the quick offload game against the Lions and it didn’t really work. Look at that against the SB game a week or so ago, lots of kicking to space. I haven’t seen Weber kicking much, and a performance against Canada is not a test or performance that really proves much - sorry Canada.
     
  16. Umaga's Witness

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    I kinda agree with this. I don’t think fast clearance from ball available to first receiver is the key against rush defence. I think rush defence is the key against fast clearance from ball available to receiver, as has been shown from the lions series onward.

    This isn’t to say that fast clearance is unimportant, it absolutely is important at the right time, and I do think smith has lost a lot of his sharpness and isn’t using the fast clearance enough. But I still think he is our best halfback.

    To simplify it, a fast clearance is absolutely vital when the defence is on the back foot or disorganised, when the forwards have made the ball available quickly after the tackles player had made it over the advantage line. At other times, when the defence is organised and on the front foot, the most important thing for the team is that the pass isn’t telegraphed, easy to read. This is the responsibility of both the halfback and of all the players who can give him options to pass to. But taking steps is usually a good idea, because the would be tacklers of possible ball receivers need to keep one eye on the halfback and one eye on the attackers, which will usually slow their rush.

    A running threat is also a big plus as well.
     
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  17. Jer1cho

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  18. Rinkadink

    Rinkadink Bench Player

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    Just got round to watching this, made me a bit uncomfortable truth be told. ABs ruthless. Loved the reception the Rotherham Titans lock got when he was subbed off, respect.

    Both teams looked done in at the end, not surprising really.
     
  19. RugbyUSA

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  20. Larksea

    Larksea First XV

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    goes without saying but Beaudie clocked up a crapload of running meters in that game. Both ball in hand and on defense. Him being run down had more to do with fatigue than anything else.
     
  21. Zapphod

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    One thing I haven't seen mentioned is this incident...

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...an-hooker-to-play-fair-in-rugby-world-cup-win

    I didn't think much of it but it has kind of stuck with me.

    Initially I thought it was rather a strange request but as I have watched these slaughters play out I think maybe the Canadian had a point, surely there is a way that once a result is beyond doubt the teams can be evened up as I think it would make the games a little more interesting for the crowds as well.
    I accept that bending the rules doesn't really help the weaker team in the long term so perhaps changing the stronger team structure during the game may be an option.
    Examples might be reducing the stronger team by one (as the ABs did against Tonga), allowing more "B" team substitutions during the game once certain conditions are met, allowing the weaker team more substitutions?

    Alternatively go with a "cup and plate" competition, do away with third and fourth place match and have a bottom of cup v top of plate match instead.
     
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