[RWC2019][Pool B] Round 3 - England vs. Argentina (05/10/2019)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Tokyo Stadium
Time: 10:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[Which Tyler]

I'd like to see:
1. Marler
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Kris
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Wilson

9. Heinz
10. Ford
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Joseph
14. Cokanasiga
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie, 17. MVunipola, 18. Cole, 19. Lawes, 20. BVunipola
21. Youngs, 22. Farrell, 23. Daly

Billy and Daly have yet to impress in the last 2 months, so they get a kick in the arse (quite apart from that, imagine both Vunipolae coming on together for 25 minutes, with a point to prove - ouch). Coka is hardly secure in his place there, but Daly needs to try earning a shirt again - and offers more from the bench.
All 3 of those I've mentioned here could earn the selves a starting berth against France if they play well - actually, that goes for all of my bench... except Cole

 

[MikeTheNative]

I think this current Argentina team is a bit poor to be honest (For their standards), whatever team England put out I imagine they should win reasonably comfortably.

 

[bushytop]

I think this current Argentina team is a bit poor to be honest (For their standards), whatever team England put out I imagine they should win reasonably comfortably.

One of those rare occasions I'll supporting our empirical overlords .

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Hand in your sheep and daffodil!

 

[bushytop]

Hand in your sheep and daffodil!

 

[spartan32]

Billy and Daly are never been dropped from starting for this one. I think this will be the same team as the opener, with Nowell and Slade on the bench to get some game time. I can't see Eddie not going for Ford Faz axis and Manu. JJ May have played his way into a 13 shirt.

We need to seriously up our game this week. Clinical, fast play and decent decision making, coupled with the strong D. A no score for Argentina would be a big marker set down.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'd like to see:
1. Marler
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Kris
6. Curry
7. Underhill
8. Wilson

9. Heinz
10. Ford
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Joseph
14. Cokanasiga
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie, 17. MVunipola, 18. Cole, 19. Lawes, 20. BVunipola
21. Youngs, 22. Farrell, 23. Daly

Billy and Daly have yet to impress in the last 2 months, so they get a kick in the arse (quite apart from that, imagine both Vunipolae coming on together for 25 minutes, with a point to prove - ouch). Coka is hardly secure in his place there, but Daly needs to try earning a shirt again - and offers more from the bench.
All 3 of those I've mentioned here could earn the selves a starting berth against France if they play well - actually, that goes for all of my bench... except Cole

Totally agreed on Binny. That would be a relentless starting back row and I've argued before that Binny could be more impactful from the bench.

If Nowell's fit I'd have him on the bench over Daly.

Disagree on Cole though. There's a very strong argument for him and Marler to start and do the hard yards allowing Sinckler and Mako to come on and cause havoc when games open up. It's not about "better", but being smart with the resources available.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd be tempted to start Genge over Marler. He's been the far more impressive of the 2 recently.

 

[spartan32]

I'd be tempted to start Genge over Marler. He's been the far more impressive of the 2 recently.

Genge was really struggling in the scrum with USA, would not want him starting against the Arg. Rather have two solid set piece lads, wear them out, then bring on Genge, Mako for example and tear it up in the open.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Hand in your sheep and daffodil!

I read the start of that post and really wondered where you were going with it. Definitely one to be careful with the punctuation.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Alright, 5 Tier 1 teams in 5 weeks start here!

I am nervous for this one, Argentina are going to be pumped. Hopefully Sanchez doesn't magically rediscover his form ...

 

[Goodey]

I'd like to see a fit Nowell too, and him returning makes McConnachie look pretty surplus to requirement, doesn't it?

Hope there's a spot for Joseph in the 23, been the standout back from the first two games. That said I still think Farrell is comfortably our best 12 and moving Tuilagi inside doesn't sit right with me. Both Tuilagi and JJ are similar as outside options, it's just that the latter is more likely to step and jump past defenders than crashing through them. So I wouldn't play them as a centre pairing.

My backs
9) Youngs 10) Ford 11) May 12) Farrell 13) Tuilagi 14) Daly 15) Watson
21) Heinz 22) Joseph 23) Nowell/Cokinasiga

 

[ncurd]

Honestly if it wasn't the stage we are at the tournament I'd like to see what would happen with Ford at 9 and playing Manu and JJ. But we are too late for that our back from now on will be.

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilangi
14. Watson
15. Daly

Anything else will be a shock. Honestly only change I'd expect to see from Tonga is swapping one Itoje/Lawes for Kruis, I think Lawes make more impact from bench so him.

 

[Goodey]

Anything else will be a shock. Honestly only change I'd expect to see from Tonga is swapping one Itoje/Lawes for Kruis, I think Lawes make more impact from bench so him.

I'd say Lawes, Itoje and Kruis running out for Tonga would be a significant shock.

 

[Dutch63]

Hand in your sheep and daffodil!

But rinse the sheep first

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Any talk of dropping one of the "Quartet" is utter madness. Farrell, Itoje, Billy and Manu will obviously start any meaningful game and if you think otherwise you need some fresh air, a Kitkat and a momentary break from thinking about oval balls. I agree that Billy hasn't been at the very top of his game, but he is still the best No. 8 in the world and a noted confidence player, benching him would be a bad idea.

Ford and Farrell have combined well and clearly take pressure off each other, Ford has also been targeted far less in defense (and/or defended more effectively) and looked lively in attack. I'd be very surprised if we didn't see a Ford, Farrell, Manu midfield, especially as Slade looked held together by tape in his Cameo vs. Tonga.

Can see Marler and Cole starting with Vunipola and Sinckler coming off the bench. Tough on Genge who's been good, but Mako needs game time. Would like to see Heinz start as Youngs is yet to impress and seems to play better off the bench anyway.

 

[Grizwald]

Argentina's scrum needs to be gone after so I'd agree with those calling for Cole to start for that reason. Would expect Sinkler to start though.

Expected team


1. Marler
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Curry (would like to see Wilson personally)
7. Underhill (Curry to move over for Wilson)
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs (I think Heinz is in better form)
10. Ford-been playing well
11. Watson
12. Farrell. He's the best 12 we've out in Japan. Don't really want to see Manu there out of position.
13. Manu
14. May
15. Daly. I'd rather see Watson there but the die is cast on this one and Watson with his chance at starting 15 didn't put his hand up enough.

England will need to play well, I'm not sure the route one direct runners will be massively effective against a physical Argentina.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Any talk of dropping one of the "Quartet" is utter madness. Farrell, Itoje, Billy and Manu will obviously start any meaningful game and if you think otherwise you need some fresh air, a Kitkat and a momentary break from thinking about oval balls. I agree that Billy hasn't been at the very top of his game, but he is still the best No. 8 in the world and a noted confidence player, benching him would be a bad idea.

He is?

He'll start, but we need to see more from him. And if he's not performing his position should totally not be sacrosanct.

I also don't think you can say he's the world's best on one hand and a confidence player on the other. The difference between the good and the great often has far more to do with mental toughness than lung capacity, bench press or offloading skills. Binny hasn't bent many games to his will recently, now would be a good time to start.

 

[justanargie]

I'm not that negative about this game compared with my countrymen. However, being realistic, I think we have 40% of chances to make it.
That said, there is a mental issue with this team, so the fact of being underdogs may cause a positive effect. If they manage to stay close in the score and transfer the pressure to the english I believe there is a major possibilty and edge it to, lets say, 50% of chances. I mean something similar to a situation like the game against the ABs B team in Velez for the RC, with a better ending.
Of course we need Sanchez and our backs back from their holidays, we are not going anywhere with the maul here.
Anyway, waiting for the teams to be announced; I'm not nervous with this one compared with the game vs France so I'm going to enjoy it, hope the players feel the same.


Btw I wonder if a draw would be usefull or a draw with 4 tries...