[RWC2019][Pool B] Round 3 - England vs. Argentina (05/10/2019)

[Rugbeer]

So pumped up for this match. 50% chances for both squads, indeed is going to be in or out of RWC.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Argentina's scrum needs to be gone after so I'd agree with those calling for Cole to start for that reason. Would expect Sinkler to start though.

Expected team

15. Daly. I'd rather see Watson there but the die is cast on this one and Watson with his chance at starting 15 didn't put his hand up enough.

England will need to play well, I'm not sure the route one direct runners will be massively effective against a physical Argentina.

Sorry I can't agree, Watson has had barely any chances at FB and one can hardly say Watson didn't do a good enough job there and then say therefore Daly. Daly has offered a lot in attack but when it comes to the fundamentals of being a FB he has actually been pretty poor. Watson is a better FB than Daly. His defense is better and he is vastly superior under the high ball. His positioning is also superior. Daly has a longer kick and can get involved in link play more but Watson recently has been showing glimpses of his old elusive running again, which at it's best is also better than Daly's.

 

[Grizwald]

Sorry I can't agree, Watson has had barely any chances at FB and one can hardly say Watson didn't do a good enough job there and then say therefore Daly. Daly has offered a lot in attack but when it comes to the fundamentals of being a FB he has actually been pretty poor. Watson is a better FB than Daly. His defense is better and he is vastly superior under the high ball. His positioning is also superior. Daly has a longer kick and can get involved in link play more but Watson recently has been showing glimpses of his old elusive running again, which at it's best is also better than Daly's.

Totally agree on the Watson being the better fullback. I should have been clearer, Watson hasn't had much of a chance due to injury to develop as England's first choice 15. The only chance he got in the warms ups was against Italy where I don't think he particularly shined but was was moot point due to his lack of availability.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Counterpoint:
When has Daly ever put his hand up?

If Nowell is out it should be a May, Joe, Watson back 3 with Daly on the bench

 

[bushytop]

Counterpoint:
When has Daly ever put his hand up?

If Nowell is out it should be a May, Joe, Watson back 3 with Daly on the bench

Always thought Daly is the perfect bench option as he covers 11, 13, 14 & 15... so few nations have a player that can do that. Even though he'd be on the bench, he'd still be pretty much as valuable as any starter due to what he'd offer.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If Jones wants Daly to start I'd rather have him on the wing and Watson at FB.

 

[Jimbo]

Counterpoint:
When has Daly ever put his hand up?

If Nowell is out it should be a May, Joe, Watson back 3 with Daly on the bench

Hey he's improving there, you must have missed that tackle of his, it did result in a try a few phases later but it is the first genuine tackle I can recall him making at FB.

 

[Scotty]

For me i want us to go very bench heavy.

Genge
LCD
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Curry
Underhill
Wilson
Youngs
Ford
May
Faz
Manu
Watson
Daly

George
Mako
Sinks
Lawes
Billy
Heinz
Slade
Cockanasiga

Front row for front row obv.
Lawes for itoje
Underhill off for Billy
Heinz for youngs(speed it up)
Slade for Faz( for manu slade)
Cockanasiga for may(may has nothing to prove)

The carriers for the last 30 min will be everywhere. And multiple options.

Even if we make these changes at 50 min or earlier.

If Nowell is fit then id rest May. Again nothing to prove. Nowell starts for gametime with joe on the bench and then comes off for joe.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Daly has offered a lot in attack.

Not from FB, rest of your post I agree with wholeheartedly

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Not from FB, rest of your post I agree with wholeheartedly

I was referring more to generally when he joins the line but yeah attacking from the FB position he is pretty weak.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Not from FB, rest of your post I agree with wholeheartedly

I was referring more to generally when he joins the line but yeah attacking from the FB position he is pretty weak.

One of his contributions which is slightly overlooked is that he often gives a/the key pass in an attack coming into the 13 channel. He can pass quickly and accurately off both hands which England make good use of.

Overall though I agree he's not a fullback

 

[MarkyH]

Daly is involved in so many of our good moves coming into the line as an extra centre, from the FB position. He's got plenty of assists in the last year. That's something Watson or Brown aren't so good at.

However, Watson is a much better FB when the ball is at the FB. He's better in the air, better as a loose runner and his positioning is lots better. Daly tends to hoof the ball, Watson tends to run elusively from 15.

So, it's all down to what EJ wants, creativity in attack from the 15 or a better FB but less creativity.

Does that even make sense?

 

[spartan32]

Counterpoint:
When has Daly ever put his hand up?

If Nowell is out it should be a May, Joe, Watson back 3 with Daly on the bench

It's a good point, but this isn't about how good a full back he is, It's about how well Daly fits into Eddies over all game plan. EJ seems to favour a kicking game, and Daly is the best kicker of the 3 from hand or tee. He also links well in attack which Eddie also likes. And then there's the fact that he is one of the few players in the world that has the ability of getting 3 points from 60 meters out, which in white hot knock out games puts the opposition under a lot of pressure and keeps them honest over a majority of the field. Crucial against masters of the dark arts like NZ. Ultimately I'm sure EJ sees the defensive issues but clearly calculates that what he offers in attack makes up for it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

His attack is pretty overrated,
When you can't work an exceptionally simply 2 on 1, bombing a nailed on try, then you shouldn't be put above others as an attacker.

I understand what you mean WRT him being another distributor/kicker from 15, but I don't think that's enough considering his core skills in that position.

I just have absolutely zero faith in Daly to make the right decision on attack or defence when playing in the back 3 - we're getting to the business part of the tournament, we can't paper over his deficiencies with "Oh but maybe we'll need him to kick a 60m penalty".

It's not as if Watson is incapable of attacking from 15/linking into attacking plays or anything - he's an exceptional attacking threat.

 

[Goodey]

Short memories here. Daly hasn't played well in two games but let's not let eradicate two years of being an exceptional player. We're talking about the same guy that started all three tests for the Lions yeah?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Argentina will be desperate. England will play territory and demolish every scrum. It will frustrate the Argentinian's. They'll be frustrated and hot, tired, more irritated, more frustrated. They will capitulate until they are down and out, then the pressure will come off and they'll make a late run but be too late, way too late.

England 33 Argentina 18.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Short memories here. Daly hasn't played well in two games but let's not let eradicate two years of being an exceptional player. We're talking about the same guy that started all three tests for the Lions yeah?

Exceptional?

His core skills as a back three have always been poor - positioning, defence and high ball all not up to scratch. He gets by on his natural skills overshadowing the requirements for those positions. This isn't the case, at the moment, with his deficiencies now overshadowing how naturally talented he is.

I've been saying the same for years, it's not a new development.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Short memories here. Daly hasn't played well in two games but let's not let eradicate two years of being an exceptional player. We're talking about the same guy that started all three tests for the Lions yeah?

Those lions starts all come on the wing though. He's never looked convincing at FB, despite getting a lot time there the past two years.

 

[Rinkadink]

We're talking about the same guy that started all three tests for the Lions yeah?

I didn't realise Daly was the Lions' 15 for three international series tests. Was he?

For me Daly is one of the best #23s in the game; can stand in for nearly any back role and in a tight finish has a mega-boot to win or close out. There aren't many players who can do all that to a suitable standard, Daly is an asset but I don't think he's being used correctly right now.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I didn't realise Daly was the Lions' 15 for three international series tests. Was he?

He wasn't, Liam Williams played 15.