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[RWC2019][Pool B] Round 3 - England vs. Argentina (05/10/2019)

And, were talking about dropping him to the bench, probably for 1 match
 
I didn't realise Daly was the Lions' 15 for three international series tests. Was he?

For me Daly is one of the best #23s in the game; can stand in for nearly any back role and in a tight finish has a mega-boot to win or close out. There aren't many players who can do all that to a suitable standard, Daly is an asset but I don't think he's being used correctly right now.
Yes he does suit 23 for all the reasons youve said but he has proved to be a 80 min player and not injury prone therefore having that boot on the pitch for 80 min is more of an asset. Whist having cover for all positions said does work. And there are players who make for of an impact than him from the bench tbh.

For the record this is starting or bench not if he deserves to be started over someone else.
 
The irony is that William's is the second best fullback at sarries
Well, I don't think he's played there much tbf... and the selection of Goode, while clearly a good selection is just as likely to be to do with wanting both Sanjay and Goode as starters and Liam is a far better wing than Goode is a wing or 10.
 
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Exceptional?

His core skills as a back three have always been poor - positioning, defence and high ball all not up to scratch. He gets by on his natural skills overshadowing the requirements for those positions. This isn't the case, at the moment, with his deficiencies now overshadowing how naturally talented he is.

I've been saying the same for years, it's not a new development.
Exactly.

He's playing out of position and poorly. One may a by product of the other, but the pressure's only going to ramp up as the competition goes on.

His boot's good, he can hit the line well and is good with ball in hand. But fundamentally he's not one of our 2 best wingers, he's not our best 15 and he's not our best 13. Bench it should be. He is an unnecessary risk at 15.
 
A few observations:

1. I have no idea why there is this perception that a versatile player needs to wear 23 to be able to cover multiple positions. If Daly starts he can still move to other positions later in the game. We also have 2 other players in Nowell (11, 13, 14, 15) and Slade (10, 12, 13, 15 at a push) who cover a similar number of positions and could just as adequately fill that utility bench spot. Not saying Daly deserves to start by default, just that his being "a good 23" should not factor into the discussion.

2. Whilst I have also been underwhelmed by Daly in the last few games, particularly his poor defence and inconsistency under the high ball, I think the suggestion that Watson is the obvious better option is misguided. Watson is a better threat as a runner and better under the high ball. His last man defence is marginally better than Daly's but he's by no means rock solid. The same applies to his positioning. Where he is significantly worse is as a playmaker in the wider channels and as a kicking option. If you consider that wingers compete for far more kicks (both offensively and defensively) than full backs and that Watson is the better strike runner, it makes sense to have him on the wing. My argument would actually be that Nowell is the better alternative at 15, given what Eddie wants (kicking game, playmaking ability) plus his natural strengths (defence, high ball, carrying).

3. Seen a few people suggesting benching Farrell or replacing him after 50 mins. This is madness...he's the captain, the goal-kicker, he runs the attack and the defensive line, he's one of our few truly world class players and Ford plays much better with him on the pitch. The rest of our games are basically knockout rugby against tier 1 opposition. Park your wacky ideas until after the World Cup you mentalists!
 
1. I have no idea why there is this perception that a versatile player needs to wear 23 to be able to cover multiple positions. If Daly starts he can still move to other positions later in the game.
Of course they don't have to wear 23, you're missing the point that in the case of Daly;
His boot's good, he can hit the line well and is good with ball in hand. But fundamentally he's not one of our 2 best wingers, he's not our best 15 and he's not our best 13. Bench it should be.
Also, rotation of squad would be good. Doesn't have to be permanent change to 23.
 
That's correct in Sarries system

95% of Rugby Fans are taking Williams over Goode at International Level Being slow is a killer for a #15

Goode- excellent club player but not International standard
The game currently requires 2 playmakers. Recently 10-13, but the Abs use 10-15 and this also suits Sarries with the defensive positioning of the centres. They are used as crash ball and defensive rocks, with back 3 providing the rapier. This wouldn't work for England as there currently aren't two strong midfielders who can Marshall a defense.
 
we can't paper over his deficiencies with "Oh but maybe we'll need him to kick a 60m penalty"
Yeah he's got 2/4 penalties (=6 points) in 33 tests. The odds of his goalkicking decisively impacting one of the next 5 games is minuscule, statistically.

I agree that he has coasted on natural ability, especially at wing, and hasn't cut the mustard at fullback at all. Anyone suggesting that Watson's core fullback skills are not significantly better than Daly's ... well I guess it's subjective but I just don't see how anyone could watch them play and come to that conclusion
 
Does anyone know of a source to see which referees are scheduled for which games for the remainder of the tournament? Feel like it's a critical factor given the scrutiny some are under.
 
Does anyone know of a source to see which referees are scheduled for which games for the remainder of the tournament? Feel like it's a critical factor given the scrutiny some are under.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_Pool_A
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_Pool_B
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_Pool_C
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_Pool_D

Obvious who gets knockout matches can't be decided until the groups are locked.
 
Yeah he's got 2/4 penalties (=6 points) in 33 tests. The odds of his goalkicking decisively impacting one of the next 5 games is minuscule, statistically.

I agree that he has coasted on natural ability, especially at wing, and hasn't cut the mustard at fullback at all. Anyone suggesting that Watson's core fullback skills are not significantly better than Daly's ... well I guess it's subjective but I just don't see how anyone could watch them play and come to that conclusion
I've not seen much to suggest Watson is a much better FB option they both have demonstrated poor defensive abilities and positioning, Watson has showed to be better under the defensive high ball is the only major advantage I've noticed.
 
That is a very intimidating side - can't wait to see how they play over the 80 minutes

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49904786


England starting XV v Argentina:

15 Elliot Daly

14 Anthony Watson

13 Manu Tuilagi

12 Owen Farrell

11 Jonny May

10 George Ford

9 Ben Youngs

1 Joe Marler

2 Jamie George

3 Kyle Sinckler

4 Maro Itoje

5 George Kruis

6 Tom Curry

7 Sam Underhill

8 Billy Vunipola



Replacements

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie

17 Mako Vunipola

18 Dan Cole

19 Courtney Lawes

20 Lewis Ludlam

21 Willi Heinz

22 Henry Slade

23 Jack Nowell
 
Main talking points are the bench.

No Wilson. Injured?

Hope all of Mako, Slade and Nowell are properly fit.

Can't really argue with the starting XV. Well you can with the whole Daly at 15 thing, but Jones isn't going to change his mind.

Very tough on JJ not to be involved at all.
 
Great to see Nowell and Mako back,
As above: I'd have had Joseph involved but I guess they need to get Slade some game time

As good as Ludlam has been I'd still have Wilson in my first choice 23
 

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