[RWC2019][Pool C] Round 1 - England vs. Tonga (22/09/2019)

[BPM]

McConnochie needs game time if he's going to be useful. He looked pretty poor from a positioning POV against Italy and was a bit of a non-entity in attack (not entirely his fault) but looking at Tonga's defence from their game against NZ, they seem to leave some huge gaps on the outside, so it could be a good opportunity to play his way in to form.

 

[MarkyH]

I'd start Francis at 12 in both the first 2 games. One game with JJ outside and the other with Slade outside. Ford to start one, Farrell to start one. Tuilagi on the bench for at least one of the games, maybe both.

I reckon Wilson will be fine, so he will start at least one of the games at 8. Same with JC. Looks like it might be the USA game for them both. Give Ludlam a start, maybe in both games, and swap Underhill and Curry in the first 2 games. Obv then they play together vs Argentina and so on.

The 2nd choice players, that are clearly 2nd choice should start the first 2, as that's there world cup playing time about over, barring injuries. So if we get those injuries at least they have game time.

That's my bit anyway, what EJ will do is up to him and his staff and will turn this place into meltdown when Billy plays 160 minutes in the first 2 games...

 

[BPM]

Francis has been mostly decent for England. I thought he was good in both of the games against Wales (arguably one of our best players in the Cardiff game). He was poor against Italy, but I think Farrell needs to shoulder at least some of the blame for failing to get our midfield in to the game. It was noticeable how much better Francis had looked alongside Ford against better opposition than the Italian B team.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

McConnochie needs game time if he's going to be useful. He looked pretty poor from a positioning POV against Italy.

Scarcely surprising, he's only played 16 games of pro 15s, less than Burgess prior to 2015.

He's part of the squad so I hope he goes well. But it does make you wonder.

 

[Scotty]

Scarcely surprising, he's only played 16 games of pro 15s, less than Burgess prior to 2015.

He's part of the squad so I hope he goes well. But it does make you wonder.

Least he's been picked on form as a bolter rather than purely on hype.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Least he's been picked on form as a bolter rather than purely on hype.

TBH his selection mystifies me, but that conversation's gone. He's there so it's important he gets some time in the first couple of games.

More broadly I think we should start 2nd teams as far as poss in the first 2 games, with first choices getting runs from the bench.

 

[Reiser99]

No reason to risk anyone who's a maybe. Good chance for some players to get some game time.

I'd go:

Marler
George
Cole
Launchbury
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Vunipola
Heinz
Ford
McConnochie
Francis
Joseph
Watson
Daly

Cowan-Dickie
Sinckler
Genge
Kruis
Curry
Youngs
Farrell
Tuilagi

 

[Every Time Ref]

TBH his selection mystifies me, but that conversation's gone. He's there so it's important he gets some time in the first couple of games.

He was impressive for Bath this season but in no way did he scream out to be picked. I'm absolutely certain he was picked mainly because he has played in a high-pressure, emotionally-charged Olympic final in front of a packed house.

It is an experience which is both rare and valuable, to be fair, and probably expected to be of value in camp lore than on the pitch - but I'm not convinced it's as easily transferable as Jones seems to think.

 

[BPM]

Yeah - that's fair. I wasn't hugely unhappy with his inclusion, but I'd have preferred Spencer or Robson as a third scrum half.

 

[MarkyH]

He was impressive for Bath this season but in no way did he scream out to be picked. I'm absolutely certain he was picked mainly because he has played in a high-pressure, emotionally-charged Olympic final in front of a packed house.

It is an experience which is both rare and valuable, to be fair, and probably expected to be of value in camp lore than on the pitch - but I'm not convinced it's as easily transferable as Jones seems to think.

Agree. Quite possibly picked as he wouldn't be a problem player. I'm not saying Brown, or a Care or Cips are problem players but I'm sure they would not be happy not playing. Best to keep them away, hope we dont have loads of injuries and keep the atmosphere good.

That's why hes been picked, and players like Ludlan and Francis. No dramas. Its not like we have glaring omissions that deserve a place.

Would've took Spencer tho

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He was impressive for Bath this season but in no way did he scream out to be picked. I'm absolutely certain he was picked mainly because he has played in a high-pressure, emotionally-charged Olympic final in front of a packed house.

It is an experience which is both rare and valuable, to be fair, and probably expected to be of value in camp lore than on the pitch - but I'm not convinced it's as easily transferable as Jones seems to think.

Totally agreed. The kit may be similar but the skills are becoming more and more specialist. The Jason Roys far outnumber the Ben Stokes.

No reason to risk anyone who's a maybe. Good chance for some players to get some game time.

I'd go:

Marler
George
Cole
Launchbury
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Vunipola
Heinz
Ford
McConnochie
Francis
Joseph
Watson
Daly

Cowan-Dickie
Sinckler
Genge
Kruis
Curry
Youngs
Farrell
Tuilagi

Can't really argue with much of that, bar maybe swapping the hookers around.

 

[Scotty]

No reason to risk anyone who's a maybe. Good chance for some players to get some game time.

I'd go:

Marler
George
Cole
Launchbury
Lawes
Ludlam
Underhill
Vunipola
Heinz
Ford
McConnochie
Francis
Joseph
Watson
Daly

Cowan-Dickie
Sinckler
Genge
Kruis
Curry
Youngs
Farrell
Tuilagi

It is impressive how strong that starting 15 is even without the bench players or injured players. We have alot of depth and a it seems a settled squad.

Id say we have a good shot of doing well this RWC provided our gamble with the injured players pays off and we get them back.

 

[TommiG88]

The excitement is building. Guinness will be in hand.

Hoping to see a mix team and not take any risks with our big guys. Rest Billy, play him against USA.

May even have Lawes at 6 for this one, don't know why. Just don't want us to risk Underhill and Curry.

 

[Scotty]

The excitement is building. Guinness will be in hand.

Hoping to see a mix team and not take any risks with our big guys. Rest Billy, play him against USA.

May even have Lawes at 6 for this one, don't know why. Just don't want us to risk Underhill and Curry.

So back row of lawes ludlam and who at 8 as wilson isnt available?

Id say give billy a start in this game and play wilson vs USA, giving billy a rest before a hard run of games where he will be first choice in almost off of them.

 

[TommiG88]

So back row of lawes ludlam and who at 8 as wilson isnt available?

Id say give billy a start in this game and play wilson vs USA, giving billy a rest before a hard run of games where he will be first choice in almost off of them.

Wilson not available? Billy plays then.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Has Ludlam ever played any 8? I thought I'd seen him play there before but everywhere seems to suggest he's been pretty exclusively a 7 with some game time at 6.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://ranked-list-images.files.bb...ting-XV-82fc446339dbd10fb3e2729507074b1e.html

 

[TommiG88]

https://ranked-list-images.files.bb...ting-XV-82fc446339dbd10fb3e2729507074b1e.html

That would be my team too.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Since the last RWC England has played 44 internationals.

Tonga has only played 21, just 4 of which have been against tier 1 countries. A 17 - 19 win against Italy in the 2016 AIs, then downhill all the way - a narrowish loss 24 - 6 at home to a weak Wales in 2017 followed by a 74 - 24 hammering in Cardiff in 2018 and the 92 - 7 mullering from the ABs the other day.

We'll no doubt get the usual hand wringing platitudes about growing the game over the next few weeks. Will anyone think they're serious?

Back to this game. Even with a second string we really should be looking at a convincing win.

 

[BPM]

Agreed. No disrespect meant to Tonga, but I would be disappointed with anything less than a convincing win.