[RWC2019][Pool C] Round 2 - England vs. USA (26/09/2019)

[Pom in Exile]

When the only alternative in Japan is Youngs he is 100% the quicker option

That's as maybe, but why he's there over other English nines is curious. I personally don't think that Youngs was worse than Heinz last night anyway, neither of them were great but they were both much of a muchness. I know it's house rules to slate Youngs on here, especially that Brown isn't there anymore but objectively they were both meh and Heinz seems to be getting kudos simply for not being Youngs, not because of anything he's actually done. Just my two penneth anyway.

 

[bushytop]

That's as maybe, but why he's there over other English nines is curious. I personally don't think that Youngs was worse than Heinz last night anyway, neither of them were great but they were both much of a muchness. I know it's house rules to slate Youngs on here, especially that Brown isn't there anymore but objectively they were both meh and Heinz seems to be getting kudos simply for not being Youngs, not because of anything he's actually done. Just my two penneth anyway.

As it stands (with the 9's you have in the squad), England have to start with Heinz... but agree with you on it being an odd circumstance. Can't see him ever being picked after the World Cup due it being a new WC cycle and his age etc.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Didn't England have an outrageous bolter in the 07 tournament at 9? Maybe EJ realised he ****** it so bad he just picked some rando in hope.

 

[bushytop]

So maybe my memory isn't what it used to be but what happened to Care?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ben Spencer was the best English 9 in the premiership last season, I'd start him over either of the two we have out there.
I do wonder what would have happened if Robson didn't get sick, but seeing as he was fit in time for the training camps and wasn't selected maybe Heinz was the plan anyway. Spencer certainly didn't do anything to be dropped out of the training squad.

Heinz has done well enough in an England shirt, though - his form, comparative to Youngs', during the warm ups/first two games has been far better. He should be first choice ATM.



At this stage it's pointless saying "Why is Heinz people's first choice when X, Y and Z are better?!"
We have two 9s out there, so we pick the one on best form and that's comfortably Heinz.

 

[Pom in Exile]

I was impressed with all the subs apart from Youngs really, thought that they all upped the tempo and took us back to the 'finishers' of a couple of years ago.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So maybe my memory isn't what it used to be but what happened to Care?

Dropped out cause of poor form and then had surgery at the end of the season so any faint hope he did have was gone.

We wasted way too many caps on him when we had Spencer and Robson waiting in the shadows - Him and Youngs did a decent enough job early on (it was often the case that one was on form while the other was terrible) but we didn't once look at who was 3rd choice (beyond parachuting Wigglesworth in when there was an injury).

 

[bushytop]

Dropped out cause of poor form and then had surgery at the end of the season so any faint hope he did have was gone.

We wasted way too many caps on him when we had Spencer and Robson waiting in the shadows - Him and Youngs did a decent enough job early on (it was often the case that one was on form while the other was terrible) but we didn't once look at who was 3rd choice (beyond parachuting Wigglesworth in when there was an injury).

As I don't watch much prem I've not seen much Spencer, any idea on why Eddie doesn't fancy him?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As I don't watch much prem I've not seen much Spencer, any idea on why Eddie doesn't fancy him?

No.

 

[Rinkadink]

As I don't watch much prem I've not seen much Spencer, any idea on why Eddie doesn't fancy him?

Not sure either. Also waiting in wings aside from those mentioned are Mitchell at Saints plus Randall and Uren at Bears, latter two compared very favourably to Spencer and the SA scrum halves at Ashton Gate last season.

England actually have a lot of quality in that position but the international set up hasn't managed to leverage that for whatever reason. Hopefully that will be addressed during the upcoming cycle.

 

[FLOBALOB]

I'm quite looking forward to see how Stu Townsend goes after missing the whole of last season. Plays with a lot of pace and purpose.

 

[Reiser99]

Going through the squads these seem to be the genuine 9 options going forward.

Jack Maunder (Exeter)
Stu Townsend (Exeter)
Ben Spencer (Saracens)
Dan Robson (Wasps)
Ben Vellacott (Wasps) Did we cap him or not? I can't remember.

Those are the ones who have been spoken about the most. Townsend and Maunder have both had injury set backs. Going forward I'd like to see Spencer and Robson competing for the no.9 shirt with the younger players training around the squad and in the 23 for matches against weaker teams like Italy, depending on who is playing well. Of course that is based on form too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Vellacott is out for the year, blew his knee out in the Prem 7s.

Spencer and Robson are the two for me, and I think their skillsets dovetail nicely too.

 

[RedruthRFC]

BBC reporting that it left Hooley with concussion, if that's true questions have to be raised why Hooley played another 70mins...

although I have the feeling that the BBC reporter didn't watch the game and just saw that Hooley went off with a head injury.

Wouldn't be the first time. Motu Matu'u looked spark out after his dodgy tackle, but it looked like his medical team and the AR on that side who had a clear view were happy to allow him to play on until he got his yellow.

 

[Reiser99]

Vellacott is out for the year, blew his knee out in the Prem 7s.

Spencer and Robson are the two for me, and I think their skillsets dovetail nicely too.

Definitely, but I'd also have one younger player getting regular exposure with the possibility of challenging closer to the world cup. They'll be 26/27 at the next world cup, so definitely plenty of time to get some experience.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

BBC reporting that it left Hooley with concussion, if that's true questions have to be raised why Hooley played another 70mins...

although I have the feeling that the BBC reporter didn't watch the game and just saw that Hooley went off with a head injury.

I noticed that too and just assumed it was lazy reporting (which annoys me). If Francis concussed him he'd have failed an HIA in minute 1 (if one was done?) and not returned to the pitch. As it was he did and got smushed by Wilson towards the end of the match, Odd collision but nothing untoward in terms of the laws. Hooley whacked his head on the turf and was knocked out. In the commentary they mention Hooley returing to the pitch with a new shirt presumably as a blood injury had been sorted.

But the same reporters seem to think that Farrell's snoz was caused by Quill. It probably didn't help but Farrell gets whacked at 57:44 in the build up to Ruaridh McConnochie's try. Here is is sporting his bloody nose.



Quill tries to decapitate him at 69:28

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Extended 12-minute highlights if not been posted up yet.

 

[BPM]

Definitely, but I'd also have one younger player getting regular exposure with the possibility of challenging closer to the world cup. They'll be 26/27 at the next world cup, so definitely plenty of time to get some experience.

Alex Mitchell looked the business when he played in the Barbarians game. With Reinach at the World Cup, he should be Saints starting 9 for the opening rounds of the season at least.

 

[Grizwald]

Quicker delivery? We must have watched different matches. Heinz was slow as ****, I'm completely nonplussed as to why he's there over other 9s tbh.

Youngs is looking glacial in current form compared to Heinz. My first thought when Heinz came on the scence was 'isn't that the kiwi who played agaisnt the Lion's?' All this will have been said before I'd have expected 3 9's one of which to be Spencer, as he looked set to establish himself in the England set up and with a load of Saracens players and potential 10 in Farrell it kind of made sense.

Part of me still thinks Jones is playing the long game as a secret mole...

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The American 6 looked really good, more so in the first half, more so again in the first half of the first half, but was playing well until he got subbed. Made a lot of tackles, and very good ones, often coming in as the second defender to drive back and hold up the English, completely taking away their momentum and slowing the ball down. He was a menace at the breakdown too. Hope hooley is ok.

Agree with all the northern hemisphere experts about youngs from what I've seen he can't be considered the best England has. And Heinz, really? Better than young's but there has to be better options. Some very accurate kicking from him though.

Cokanasiga dissappointed given all the hype.