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[RWC2019][Pool C] Round 4 - England vs. France (12/10/2019) *MATCH CANCELLED DUE TO BAD WEATHER*

I think resting players is more important and as other have noted our '2nd's' should still be beating this France team (unless they do a France). Anyone who we need later on and is a marginal call should be sitting this one out. We are lucky its been a cakewalk so far when we were expecting 5 tough games in a row (if we make the final). There's an argument of going into the knockouts undercooked and that's fair.


Honestly I don't expect France in their current state to give us a proper game anyway. They might be a tad better in that they won't handicap themselves like Argentina did.
 
Have we ever tried running a pod of 3 off a ruck or off 10 with something like Sinckler, Vunipola and Manu? All 3 running options with the potential for a pop pass to another heavy carrier rather than sending Billy V to try to batter through set defences by himself. It would be much harder to double team Vunipola if 2 other heavy runners were on his shoulder presenting real threats of a pop pass or offload to keep the supporting tackler guessing.

Just run it every so often to get over the gainline and really bring the defence in close again. Have a flanker following behind to ensure quick ball and then pop it out to someone speedy further out.
 
If I'm French I'm looking at the 6N result and performances in Japan so far and thinking that 9 times out of 10 Eng will win. Why would they try to put all their energy into this match, surely the "French" performance that might be in there somewhere is better saved for a knock out game? I'm not expecting their first choice side.

Irrespective of what Fra do this is our last chance to rest our top stars. Would be first class muppetry not to take it. Jones will look very very silly if any of May, Manu, Faz, George etc go down in this one. For once cotton wool outweighs continuity.

And where the respective teams are at, I think our second string can do a job anyway.
 
If I'm French I'm looking at the 6N result and performances in Japan so far and thinking that 9 times out of 10 Eng will win. Why would they try to put all their energy into this match, surely the "French" performance that might be in there somewhere is better saved for a knock out game? I'm not expecting their first choice side.

I agree with you.
Historically, famous upsets from France had been when something was at stake and no one believed in them.
Similarly France very often underperforms when there is not much to play for.

France was never good at putting big scores because after there is a significant margin they don't see why they should bother more.
France after a crazy win think they don't have to work anymore because they are at the top.

Of course this applies to more or less to everybody, but in France you see this in many sports.
There is a big cultural difference with England or other anglo-saxon countries for example, who will keep applying the game plan and will be focused not matter what.


So first condition (no one believe in France winning) is met, but there is still nothing really to play for.
We will save our heroic game for QF (if it happens at all, it's been a long time).

However the staff might still believe they should put the best team not matter what. But the player won't care.
Probably it would be less embarrassing to put some players who will want to earn their spot for the QF game. Then they have something to play for.
But we can't fill up a team with these players :D
 
Tbh we go on about resting players but Alex Goode for Sarries last year played 1628 premiership minutes starting rounds 1 - 20 plus the semi and final at 15 and playing 80min for about 90% of the games. Might be different for the forwards as there are more collisions but players are capable of playing 7 games of 80 min especially as no English player has played every minute so far(that im aware of?)

This are athletes who will have been beasted by EJ to get them in shape and no way should they be worried about being tired after 4 games. I mostly say rest to prevent injuries and give players who need gametime what they need.

Im in 2 minds about Manu, he is vital to our attack and needs gametime with Slade/JJ but at the same time will likly play every minute from QFs forward as he is our most powerful back who creates space and we have no like for like. So im in 2 minds about wrapping him up in cotton wool or letting him lose from the start with Slade.
 
Tbh we go on about resting players but Alex Goode for Sarries last year played 1628 premiership minutes starting rounds 1 - 20 plus the semi and final at 15 and playing 80min for about 90% of the games. Might be different for the forwards as there are more collisions but players are capable of playing 7 games of 80 min especially as no English player has played every minute so far(that im aware of?)

This are athletes who will have been beasted by EJ to get them in shape and no way should they be worried about being tired after 4 games. I mostly say rest to prevent injuries and give players who need gametime what they need.

Im in 2 minds about Manu, he is vital to our attack and needs gametime with Slade/JJ but at the same time will likly play every minute from QFs forward as he is our most powerful back who creates space and we have no like for like. So im in 2 minds about wrapping him up in cotton wool or letting him lose from the start with Slade.

It's exactly that.

I'm not. This is a dead rubber and Manu's got a lousy injury history. If he gets hurt in this and misses Aus or later games Jones will, rightly, be absolutely slaughtered. The potential downsides massively outweigh any upside. Just a pointless risk for possibly our most valuable player. I wouldn't even have him on the bench.
 
I'm normally one for keeping players sharp, and having a certain amount of consistency. I don't believe injury prone players should not play, they become less injury prone the more they play as their body adapts.

However, in this case we don't need to risk in-game injuries. We have a few players that need game time, and they are important players. I'd rest Billy and Manu, maybe have both on the bench to keep them sharp and can come on as proper finishers. Give game time to Nowell, Mako, Slade, JJ who are all absolute class but need time, might even be tempted to put Slade and JJ in midfield even though it's never really worked before.

Should be a good game though :)
 
[QUOTE= Wilson is injured to an unknown extent. Is that Ludlam at 8 in the worst case scenario, then?

Hadn't clocked that Wilson was injured. Would explain his lack of bench time. Where did you hear that? If he is (and BV too) then we'll have Curry at * & Ludlum at 6, with the usual cover of Maro or Lawes moving to 6 if there's an injury I reckon.
 
I'm normally one for keeping players sharp, and having a certain amount of consistency. I don't believe injury prone players should not play, they become less injury prone the more they play as their body adapts.

However, in this case we don't need to risk in-game injuries. We have a few players that need game time, and they are important players. I'd rest Billy and Manu, maybe have both on the bench to keep them sharp and can come on as proper finishers. Give game time to Nowell, Mako, Slade, JJ who are all absolute class but need time, might even be tempted to put Slade and JJ in midfield even though it's never really worked before.

Should be a good game though :)
Has Slade JJ midfield ever been tried? Slade hates 12.

But tbh i want a strong Bench tbh to change the game of needed or play less minutes for our front liners and Mako, Slade and Nowell all to start.

No BV even if he is fit.
 
Has Slade JJ midfield ever been tried? Slade hates 12.

But tbh i want a strong Bench tbh to change the game of needed or play less minutes for our front liners and Mako, Slade and Nowell all to start.

No BV even if he is fit.

Potentially against Uruguay in 2015. For a one off game I could accept it again for reasons of match fitness. Or just start Francis at Slade/JJ and swap then round. I don't really mind what lineup we put out to be honest, it's nice to be relaxed about it :)
 
I do wonder if sometimes people just go mental...... Or perhaps it is just the arrogance (tongue in cheek) after all........... That or I'm just a natural contrarian....

I watched the France vs Tonga game today at my leisure due to coaching commitments yesterday. France have plenty of capability to give the English a difficult day. Penaud, Raka, Dupont, Vakatawa, Ollivon, Aldritt, Chat among others demonstrated some serious quality. Tonga hung in well and scored a worldy due to Medard being pants and the bounce of the ball but France are not the ramshackle shambles that people wish to present them as. They lost one scrum (but dominated others). The lineout was capable if not awesome, maul acceptable and given time and space Vakatawa and Raka (especially) looked potent. Put Lopez back in and potentially Fickou it's a whole different kettle of fish. Now the French are entirely mental enough to pick Huget at FB again which we'd love but if they happen to land a decent selection and we turn up assuming we'll win, we won't.

Anyway all this "avoiding NZ" stuff becomes entirely irrelevant if we end up getting beaten by Wales which is a far more likely occurrence than I'd care to admit. Seriously does anyone think that Australia is a tougher game for us than the Welsh? The Welsh are like the bloody Sith. They channel their hate effectively and manage their emotions far better than us. Farrell and Youngs have both been utterly humiliated by our near neighbors. The Aussies don't like us much either but in terms of hatred, they are amateurs.

In fact confession time. I'd prefer to lose to anyone but the Welsh at any stage even if the path following the Welsh was to walk across broken glass whilst eating fish hooks.
 
Tbh we go on about resting players but Alex Goode for Sarries last year played 1628 premiership minutes starting rounds 1 - 20 plus the semi and final at 15 and playing 80min for about 90% of the games. Might be different for the forwards as there are more collisions but players are capable of playing 7 games of 80 min especially as no English player has played every minute so far(that im aware of?)

This are athletes who will have been beasted by EJ to get them in shape and no way should they be worried about being tired after 4 games. I mostly say rest to prevent injuries and give players who need gametime what they need.
But how many of those 22 matches was Goode at his absolute physical and mental peak for?

Curry and Daly have both played every minute of every game.

I'm not worried about them being tired, I'm worried about them not being at their peak, physically and mentally. You don't rest players to prevent injury in a short tournament like this, you do it to prevent aggravation of existing injuries, and to encourage physical and mental peak performance when it's needed.
 
I find it interesting a few others are starting to criticise Billy's performance. I was going to ask does anyone think he looks like he is carrying an injury? He's not making as much ground and beating as many defenders as he usually does.
I don't know. But in that, can someone tell me what injury he is coming back from? Acl per chance?
I do wonder if sometimes people just go mental...... Or perhaps it is just the arrogance (tongue in cheek) after all........... That or I'm just a natural contrarian....

I watched the France vs Tonga game today at my leisure due to coaching commitments yesterday. France have plenty of capability to give the English a difficult day. Penaud, Raka, Dupont, Vakatawa, Ollivon, Aldritt, Chat among others demonstrated some serious quality. Tonga hung in well and scored a worldy due to Medard being pants and the bounce of the ball but France are not the ramshackle shambles that people wish to present them as. They lost one scrum (but dominated others). The lineout was capable if not awesome, maul acceptable and given time and space Vakatawa and Raka (especially) looked potent. Put Lopez back in and potentially Fickou it's a whole different kettle of fish. Now the French are entirely mental enough to pick Huget at FB again which we'd love but if they happen to land a decent selection and we turn up assuming we'll win, we won't.

Anyway all this "avoiding NZ" stuff becomes entirely irrelevant if we end up getting beaten by Wales which is a far more likely occurrence than I'd care to admit. Seriously does anyone think that Australia is a tougher game for us than the Welsh? The Welsh are like the bloody Sith. They channel their hate effectively and manage their emotions far better than us. Farrell and Youngs have both been utterly humiliated by our near neighbors. The Aussies don't like us much either but in terms of hatred, they are amateurs.

In fact confession time. I'd prefer to lose to anyone but the Welsh at any stage even if the path following the Welsh was to walk across broken glass whilst eating fish hooks.
@bushytop dem fighting words. Surely England is the empire, and wales is the rebel alliance?
 
6 Nations...

upload_2019-10-7_21-20-3.jpeg

I'll leave it to you guys to guess which is which.
 
In fact confession time. I'd prefer to lose to anyone but the Welsh at any stage even if the path following the Welsh was to walk across broken glass whilst eating fish hooks.[/QUOTE]

This. Exactly this.
 

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