[RWC2019][Pool C] Round 4 - England vs. France (12/10/2019) *MATCH CANCELLED DUE TO BAD WEATHER*

[Scotty]

Bit of a shame, but at least the only risk of injury is an Eddie Jones training session!

We're screwed!

 

[D0m3]

It is bloody lucky that this decision ultimately doesn't effect our group. I think it's was odds on we were going to go top and France 2nd so that something.

But it does. England was never guaranteed first place just like NZ wasn't guaranteed the win against Italy. Otherwise what's the point of playing.

 

[Which Tyler]

I really don't think it's an advantage to have the extra week of rest.
we "know" from the Premiership in England that teams used to target 2nd place in the league, to avoid having that rest weekend and losing all intensity when it came to the final - which is why they extended the SFs from 3 to 4 teams.
We worry about teams being undercooked getting to the KO stages; with a built up of intensity for the last 1-2 pool matches being the ideal.

England (for example) were really targetting the first 2 pool matches to try out combinations; with the last 2 being that build up of intensity to hit the ground running come the QFs. All intensity was robbed from us against Argentina by Lavini; whilst there's no match at all against France.
It looks to me like Wales are arriving at the QFs in the best shape in terms of preparations. They've beaten the Aussies; had a little rest; and then a huge test physically and psychologically, against Fiji. England have probably had the worse preparation from the pools.

 

[Dai Yorkshire]

I find it extraordinary that this cant be rescheduled or even moved to another venue.

 

[TommiG88]

This issue was raised prior to the tournament, and yet people are surprised that it hasn't been moved or rescheduled?

No doubt we'll get the NZ and England being favoured messages next.

The arrogance of this pesky typhoon.

 

[Nudger]

Typhoon eddy's cunning plan

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I really don't think it's an advantage to have the extra week of rest.
we "know" from the Premiership in England that teams used to target 2nd place in the league, to avoid having that rest weekend and losing all intensity when it came to the final - which is why they extended the SFs from 3 to 4 teams.
We worry about teams being undercooked getting to the KO stages; with a built up of intensity for the last 1-2 pool matches being the ideal.

England (for example) were really targetting the first 2 pool matches to try out combinations; with the last 2 being that build up of intensity to hit the ground running come the QFs. All intensity was robbed from us against Argentina by Lavini; whilst there's no match at all against France.
It looks to me like Wales are arriving at the QFs in the best shape in terms of preparations. They've beaten the Aussies; had a little rest; and then a huge test physically and psychologically, against Fiji. England have probably had the worse preparation from the pools.

You're definitely better off not playing this match. Four years ago in the equivalent fixture Ireland lost O'Mahony, O'Brien, O'Connell and Sexton in a match v France. There's an element of tuning up that goes into the warm ups and pools but at this stage everyone is match fit and avoiding injuries and fatigue is huge.

 

[Which Tyler]

You're definitely better off not playing this match. Four years ago in the equivalent fixture Ireland lost O'Mahony, O'Brien, O'Connell and Sexton in a match v France. There's an element of tuning up that goes into the warm ups and pools but at this stage everyone is match fit and avoiding injuries and fatigue is huge.

Exactly the same logic says that a premiership team is better off having a rest weekend ahead of the final. Reality simply disagreed, when it was actually observed.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd suggest that it's a positive disadvantage for those teams in the QF stage; neutral for the SF stage, and an advantage for the final - for teams that get that far.

As for anything definite, and absolute (only a Sith, or a Jedi Master etc etc) then the only definite thing we can say, is that it makes a difference, and confers an unfair advantage to someone - we just won't know for another month yet - and probably not even then as there will still be too many unknowns and debate on the matter.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Exactly the same logic says that a premiership team is better off having a rest weekend ahead of the final. Reality simply disagreed, when it was actually observed.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd suggest that it's a positive disadvantage for those teams in the QF stage; neutral for the SF stage, and an advantage for the final - for teams that get that far.

As for anything definite, and absolute (only a Sith, or a Jedi Master etc etc) then the only definite thing we can say, is that it makes a difference, and confers an unfair advantage to someone - we just won't know for another month yet - and probably not even then as there will still be too many unknowns and debate on the matter.

I still disagree that you can make this out to be a disadvantage whatsoever. Firstly, I don't think you can equate a final, with evenly matched sides, to a graded Quarter Final, the nerves aren't the same and neither is the excitement so an extended break isn't going to matter much and you have to add that England's focus wouldn't have been on Australia until now which makes this an entirely different dynamic. Also, your point doesn't stand up to further scrutiny, Leinster and Munster have won 6 European finals resting their squads the week before against teams who hadn't* and the one Leinster lost was against a rested Sarries team. None of the Pro 14 semis have been won by the team who had a match the week before and in the last 10 years of top 14 rugby it's marginally in favour of the side who had a rest the week before. All of this is more recent than the old premiership format.

Secondly, the closest a world cup winning team had ever had to a tier 1 test in their last round of pool play was Australia dismantling a rubbish Welsh side in 1991, it's always been a game v minnows under the new format.

Thirdly, no risk of injuries is huge or fatigue is massive regardless of whether Australia will get hit or not.

I think trying to paint this as a disadvantage is massively pessimistic And has no basis using 15+ year old data rather than an obvious trend is modern club rugby where teams rest their players before the biggest games.

*This is a presumption, I know from memory it was the case in 2011 but I didn't look otherwise.

 

[bushytop]

And Bushy. No love for you.

... the **** did I do!

 

[Peter Richardson]

I

I still disagree that you can make this out to be a disadvantage whatsoever. Firstly, I don't think you can equate a final, with evenly matched sides, to a graded Quarter Final, the nerves aren't the same and neither is the excitement so an extended break isn't going to matter much and you have to add that England's focus wouldn't have been on Australia until now which makes this an entirely different dynamic. Also, your point doesn't stand up to further scrutiny, Leinster and Munster have won 6 European finals resting their squads the week before against teams who hadn't* and the one Leinster lost was against a rested Sarries team. None of the Pro 14 semis have been won by the team who had a break the week before and in the last 10 years of top 14 rugby it's marginally in favour of the side who had a rest the week before. All of this is more recent than the old premiership format.

Secondly, the closest a world cup winning team had ever had to a tier 1 test in their last round of pool play was Australia dismantling a rubbish Welsh side in 1991, it's always been a game v minnows under the new format.

Thirdly, no risk of injuries is huge or fatigue is massive regardless of whether Australia will get hit or not.

I think trying to paint this as a disadvantage is massively pessimistic And has no basis using 15+ year old data rather than an obvious trend is modern club rugby where teams rest their players before the biggest games.

*This is a presumption, I know from memory it was the case in 2011 but I didn't look otherwise.

I agree with you, its very important for rest before big matches. Its a common strategy to rest your key players for an upcoming big game and play your players that aren't starters for an easier game. For example Scotland has done this with their backs and some of their forwards. They played their players that we don't see a whole lot of such as Henry Pygros, Duncan Taylor, Blair Kinghorn, Peter and George Horne, and I could keep going. Scotland's rested their key players such as Hogg, Laidlaw, Maitland, and Grey for their biggest match this sunday. Its clear that a rest is very important for a team when they have a difficult game.

 

[Derpus]

The more I think about it the more ****** this is. England go into the knockouts having played a game less with two weeks rest. Definitely an advantage.

 

[TommiG88]

The more I think about it the more ****** this is. England go into the knockouts having played a game less with two weeks rest. Definitely an advantage.

No worries Derpus, just have a few drinks and enjoy the game next week.

 

[Crags]

This issue was raised prior to the tournament, and yet people are surprised that it hasn't been moved or rescheduled?

No doubt we'll get the NZ and England being favoured messages next.

The arrogance of this pesky typhoon.

I. England getting the luxury of some rest. While my boys are doing all the running about in the heat.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The more I think about it the more ****** this is. England go into the knockouts having played a game less with two weeks rest. Definitely an advantage.

I'm with you Derpus.

There will be some of my arrogant countrymen saying it will just affect the margin, not the result. But I'm not one of them.

 

[duncanb]

No doubt a week off before the 1/4 final is a big advantage.
I would add if it was first game in group I would see it as a massive disadvantage.
Eng NZ and possibly Japan may receive this advantage.
Rules are rules I guess although effort to move/ rearrange seems lip service however happy I maybe for week off for guys.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

World cups ******

 

[TommiG88]

I. England getting the luxury of some rest. While my boys are doing all the running about in the heat.

Your boys?

 

[Jimbo]

Ordinarily the week off probably would be an advantage but in England's case I'm not convinced, they really have not needed to up the intensity yet, I worry they are going to be going in under cooked.

 

[D0m3]

Thomas Ramos who left the french squad last week following an injury is gonna play with Toulouse tomorrow.
Source in french: https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-...oulouse-contre-castres_sto7494884/story.shtml
Wtf is this?