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[RWC2019][Semi-Final 1] England vs. New Zealand (26/10/2019)

Firstly awesome tense game, well done England and good luck in the final.

I have mixed feelings about the overall performance and state of the AB team. Months ago I thought our chances of winning the WC were pretty slim but the team changed tack and added some fresh blood and overall performance improved and some expectation started to build. To cut a long story short I think we overextended the changes a bit and lost our way. Looking at what the coaches and the squad can control internally we weren't really prepared for the type of contest England in particular would give us.

I don't have much of a gripe about the reffing, but you have to afford me a bit of a wine. Some of it was top class. But that shoulder charge was a... shoulder charge. At the point of contact his arm was pinned to his side and his hand was a fist after contact he swang his arm in. You can break down the rules and technicalities of how it played out but the quick answer is simply that similar tackles have at least been a penalty and most of the time been given cards. It was a massive moment in the game but to then see a penalty reversed because Sam Whitelock made some light contact to the face of an England player with an open hand. The most that deserved was an Oscar for Owen Farrell as he went fetal position holding his precious face on the ground. That was a HUGE turning point in the game.

I mean seriously....
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nuf said... we've had AB players get cards for less so I think we are allowed to complain just a little.

But in the end it was England's day, none more so demonstrated by when ever a high ball or a restart went up and players from both sides surrounded a deflected ball it ball just seemed to drop into English hands lovingly every time. It was crazy... That's rub of the green.

The All Blacks attack for the most part seemed to have the edge to cut up the English. But the game was mostly lost at the breakdown. Whenever England were on the rack they found a turnover penalty. and the 50/50 calls mostly went their way when I believe for the most part in this WC the calls have been going to the attacking side.

Selection issues. I've been saying it for a long time now and I think its time the "Savea over Cane" brigade give me some credit. But we needed Sam Cane in that first half. This is not hindsight for me I've been saying for months that despite how great Savea is, and I love him as a player... For big games against the likes of Wales, Ireland (though they didn't end up as the challenge we expected) but most importantly England we need Sam Cane starting at 7 to lead our defense against the type of attack England were always going to bring. And if he's injured we need Matt Todd. Cane aint Flashy but stopping those straight English ball carriers much like what transpired leading up to that first try, and most of that first half. that's Bread and Butter for Cane. he made a difference in the 2nd but by then we were chasing the game and England just changed their tactics when they stopped making those easy meters. I think Hansen has already flat out admitted that was a mistake, no disrespect to Scott who was good and did his best.

In foresight I would have had Crotty and Ben Smith involved in this game, Goodhue has been good and ALB has been one of our best this year but this was a game for SBW and Crotty to start and ALB from the bench. And Ben Smith should have had that last bench spot. Jordie has been ok but Ben Smiths experienced would have been huge in that 2nd half. I think the dominant performance Over Ireland lured us into a false sense of security.

With more hindsight and to really pick this effort to bits. Interestingly the selection issues really remind me of what happened in 07 but even more so. Looking at how the game transpired I can't help but feel like the prop selection philosophy the selectors blew our minds with came back to bite us big time. A little maybe Owen Franks but mostly Karl Tu'inukuafe. This game looked right up Karl's alley. And on the flip side I really like Angus Ta'avao and Laulala but this sort of game was really not up their alley. We really needed better balance in our props rather than just going all out mobility.

I think another problem is that we just Dont play England enough, we have had 2 games in the last cycle? it makes these one off games a bit of a lottery. Honestly I think if we played England in a 3 test series and lost the first game like this, we would come back in the 2nd with better selections have a better strategy for the breakdown and lineout and likely win the next two. I dont think the tricks Eddie got us with would have the shelf life to keep working. But that's the unique challenge of a world cup. I think it's just amplified because we don't play England enough.

Anyway, you can't win them all. Change is good for the game. Winning this WC was always going to be a huge task. Our first one in this Era without McCaw and Carter. Next year will bring some major change, I still back NZ to produce the best players in the world and its going to be interesting to see how that plays out under new coaching. Personally I just hope its not Gatland lol :)

I usually cant stand the bronze playoff, but it would be nice to give the likes of Crotty and Bender plus others a sendoff.
 
A new Age has dawned.
The time of the black orcs is over . The time of the men in white is just beginning !!

I think England SHOULD be a fantastic team going forward. I think the next 4 years for the ABs is going to also be fantastic. The people that get another 4 years of experience and the people that are coming for a black jersey, exciting times for rugby.
 
A new Age has dawned.
The time of the black orcs is over . The time of the men in white is just beginning !!

I think England SHOULD be a fantastic team going forward. I think the next 4 years for the ABs is going to also be fantastic. The people that get another 4 years of experience and the people that are coming for a black jersey, exciting times for rugby.
 
Having watched every game of the All Blacks the last decade and got to know them as well as any non NZ person ever could I am of the opinion that three things caused their demise today:
1- they were not allowed to be disruptive, their clever off the ball tactics were picked up and blown - dirty uncle Sam and his knack of pulling and pushing players off play; tackling people of the ball, side entries, offside line etc.
2- their inability to handle brutally honest in your face defense and a **** load of continuous pressure.
3- coaching staff losing the plot in the last 6 months - yes leaving one of the most destructive runners in Laumape at home, carrying semi injured players & over the hill ones based on past legacies and playing a past world rugby player of the year out of position - they created their own downfall.

England did the basics well, very well and thoroughly deserves this final, whether they have the mental aptitude to have two fabulous performances in a row remains to be seen
1. They were allowed to be disruptive actually, England's kick chase was blocked every single time by multiple lurkers, the ABs got away with it every single time, they also got away with smashing players well past the rucks and flying in off their feet.
 
1. They were allowed to be disruptive actually, England's kick chase was blocked every single time by multiple lurkers, the ABs got away with it every single time, they also got away with smashing players well past the rucks and flying in off their feet.
All Bleks always get away with a load of things. You really need to take the ref out of of the game to beat them (as you did).
 
All Bleks always get away with a load of things. You really need to take the ref out of of the game to beat them (as you did).
I agree, just wanted to point out that the ref wasn't favouring England and he missed plenty or his assistants did. The TMO on the other hand inserted himself more than enough.
 
I agree, just wanted to point out that the ref wasn't favouring England and he missed plenty or his assistants did. The TMO on the other hand inserted himself more than enough.
Honestly think there's a reasonable argument for scrapping TMOs outside dangerous play.

It was pretty wild the shoulder charge wasn't even a penalty. Any other match and it's probably a yellow. The inconsistency is really grating.
 
Amazing performance, never seen a NH side dominating NZ like that for 80 mins.

A few thoughts:

1. Strategy was clearly right for this match. Gotta give a lot of credit to Eddie Jones.

2. The intensity was so high. Often with 2 good sides the team that gets the intensity wins collisions and breakdowns. England have lost a lot of big games in the last decade like that so nice to see them get it right for a big game.

3. The breakdown. England got a crazy amount of turnovers. Their decision making on when tk compete was spot on. Particularly several times after NZ made big gains down the wing instead building an attack, getting quick ball we turned it over.

This pattern happened a few times so surely was planned

4. The players.
England were good 1-23.
Itoje was superb. The front 5 as a whole is looking like a world class unit.

Underhill gave possibly the best flanker performance not to win motm ever.
The back row is great and balanced. Billy Curry undies is the real ****!

Farrell seems to have got a bit of criticism. I didn't think he shone as an individual but gave a great defensive effort and I think was probably more influential in ways you can't see as easily - communicating and organizing the team. Especially defense.

Youngs I thought was good. He's not there for speed. He's there because he is the best English SH in terms of kicking and decision making. Shame his try was chalked off.

Ford was immense- focused and clinical. He had the platform and he used it.


Overall it was the pressure, control and intensity that won the game. If they do the same next week they will win, but both SA and Wales are capable of upping the intensity too so it is far from in the bag.
 
Honestly think there's a reasonable argument for scrapping TMOs outside dangerous play.

It was pretty wild the shoulder charge wasn't even a penalty. Any other match and it's probably a yellow. The inconsistency is really grating.
Was it a shoulder charge though? They were satisfied that he had attempted to wrap his arms and it certainly looked like he did.
 
If only Smith hadn't box kicked and given away possession in the opening minutes that resulted in the England try that resulted in giving England a huge boost of confidence that resulted in destabilising the ABs that resulted in England dominating throughout and winning.

I think keeping the ball instead of kicking it away would've yeilded a different result... as everyone knows...the team that starts well ends well.

Then I woke up from a bad bad dream.
 
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What are peeps thoughts on the next ABs coach?

Do we think the loss affects Fosters chances at being the next AB's HC?

Does Gats get the call if Wales wins it all? Or even if they don't??

Rennie, Robertson, schmit??
 

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