[RWC2019][Semi-Final 1] England vs. New Zealand (26/10/2019)

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by TRF_heineken, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Nubiwan

    Nubiwan Bench Player

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    My lasting impression on that game - despite all the wonderful defending we did - was just how much pressure England were able to exert with ball in hand. Tuilagi, Itoje, Vunipola and co made extra metres with each carry, and broke the gain line every time. An unprecedented display considering the opposition. Hard to believe England lead in the missed tackles category in reflection, so often did they punch through the initial contact. Defending was what is necessary at this, or any level, for that matter.

    A complete England performance, and personally cannot remember an ABs side so dominated for 80. I wonder the fall out in NZ in the days ahead. Like it or not, surely some second guessing around selection of senior players etc. Must've been very disappointing for them to watch their side on the wrong end of that type of performance.

    Wow! That was impressive from England, and quite dominant, which is the truly satisfying part.
     
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  3. donmcdazzle

    donmcdazzle First XV

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    Yep second guessing and question marks. More than anything, England were just more desperate, fired up, accurate, you name it. To see get out-passioned was disappointing. Losing sucks either way, but when they turn in that type of performance in the black jersey, pretty average.

    A lot of guys playing their last games, so the team next year will be a lot different looking I expect. Coaching panel will be very interesting as well, may not have the same loyalty as the current mob (J. Barrett for example may not be seen for a long while yet in black).
     
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  4. stormmaster1

    stormmaster1 Academy Player

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    The missed tackle stat may be misleading. A few times a defender bolted out so a NZ player couldn't pass out, but could evade the tackle, often losing momentum in the process. Not sure how it didn't leave more dogleg gaps to run through.

    The standout points of the defense were the line speed and intensity of the tackles plus the turnovers.
     
  5. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

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    Yeah the system relies on missed tackles, basically, it involves players in wide channels going for tackles they are really only 50-50 likely to actually make, in order to force the attacker into making a decision England want him to.

    He only has one option to avoid getting smashed way behind the gain line, which is to go back inside. England have then focussed more of their defenders in that one place.

    It takes a lot of accuracy, discipline, organisation, fitness and skill to keep it working for 80 minutes and England pulled that off.
     
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  6. Nubiwan

    Nubiwan Bench Player

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    I might be missing something here, and understand he has had injury issues too, but If I am an ABs coach, I try my best to get Dane Coles on the field from the off. Impact players were in short supply for NZ yesterday. Hindsioght and all that, but Coles is a special player for me. Agree too with the Ben Smith comments. A lot of NZ backs looking at each other yesterday thinking WTF is happening?

    I still think the manner of the defeat was as far from Hansen's realms of expectation as it could have been. I reckon a view shared by most posters on here.
     
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  7. Paul Psychic Octopus

    Paul Psychic Octopus Academy Player

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    I watched the game with a few (England) supporters. One friend kept saying he had never seen NZ playing so badly; I said it was because England were playing outrageously well. I guess it was a bit of both - or that one was a consequence of the other.

    Not being an All Blacks expert (we don't play one another often enough, which is a shame), although I have Kiwi friends who are not short of an opinion, I would agree with your analysis. I might add to/embellish it as follows:

    1. Playing a lock in the back row was meant to further disrupt our line out. But you already had an advantage there (numerically at least), Vunipola not being a line-out jumper. But it didn't work - England won 90% of its own line-out (more than NZ did).

    2. Every coin has two sides and the bill was paid in the breakdown. The Kamikaze Kids have been a revelation, and 16 turnovers (the most in this World Cup?) tells you everything you need to know.

    3. England conceded far fewer penalties than usual. Either that points to improved discipline by England, or NZ's inability to force them. But it reduced the opportunity for you to play on the front foot or keep the scoreboard ticking (or even get started).

    4. I was surprised at how few players you committed to the breakdown. Rucks were an "All White on the Night" affair. Maybe you were worried abut England out wide and wanted to avoid getting narrow in defence?

    5. Many England fans were a bit concerned about Daly in defence (in attack he's great), particularly under the high ball. But you barely asked any questions of him.

    6. You might not like this last point, but NZ has a reputation among many fans for getting away with various misdemeanours off the ball. You know what I'm talking about so I don't need to mention them! But Nigel Owens seemed aware. I'll mention one - obstructing runners chasing a kick. He picked up the arm out on Ben Youngs, which meant an unnecessary penalty conceded as Youngs usually box kicks away possession.

    All in all I was thrilled with England's performance, but still regard NZ as the benchmark. We've won one game - you've been on top for a decade. Like I said I wish the two teams could meet more often.


     
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  8. Nubiwan

    Nubiwan Bench Player

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    Edith Faff De Klerk anyone? Quit spinning the ball on your finger numpty.
     
  9. Goodey

    Goodey Bench Player

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  10. easy2288

    easy2288 Academy Player

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    Totally agreed on the analysis. I still find it hard to accept. But I saw ABS players smiling and joking during the yesterday and today press conference. England was planning for this match 4 years ago. Hansen said ABs lost 10 games out of 104 or 105. This is another game. This is NOT another game, this is World Cup rugby semifinal. Hansen has to take 50% of the blame for not planning well and not developing some players in advance. Some players are good but they are not ready for a grand tournament like this. This World cup is total flop for ABs and is due to bad management
     
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  11. Old Hooker

    Old Hooker First XV

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    What made it really special is precisely that they don't. Less was definitely more.

    The ABs have a habit of learning from their mistakes. They'll be back soon enough. If I were an AB fan, I'd be thinking......

    Hansen's been around a long time. Fantastic record, but everyone has a shelf life. Similarly Read.

    We got beaten by a team that played to a level few thought possible. It wasn't one that got away, it was a proper beating. C'est la vie, it happens to everyone, it just happened to be in a RWC semi. Most Kiwis seem to fully accept this.

    There's plenty of talent. BUT I wouldn't be harking back to the McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith, Kaino side. That was one of the greatest teams ever, in any sport, not just rugby. There's always going to be a fall off from that.

    Did Eng's haka response have an impact? Sounds daft, but some people reckon that some ABs were distracted by it.

    We will kick the total cr*p out of Wales on Friday.
     
  12. Reiser99

    Reiser99 First XV

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    I think part of it is that actually the NZ squad that won 2011 and 2015 was actually an aberration in sport and dominance like that shouldn't really happen. This world cup has seen the AB's return to reality where they are an excellent side and one of the best in the world, but are certainly not invincible. Going forward NZ will continue to be one of the best sides in the world, if not the best. However the days of Carter, Smith McCaw, Kaino etc... are unlikely to ever be repeated because the nature of sport means it shouldn't.
     
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  13. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    I think rugby has only ever seen two dominant sides the 11/15 Ab's and the '03 Eng.

    I think some complacency got stuck into the AB's that caused issues that led to a delayed reaction. Post 2015 the Rugby Championship was a mess, Aus had peaked and started their downward slide, SA were a right mess and Argentina are well Argentina.

    Ireland gave them a bloody nose but this was quickly avenged. The autumn internationals go as expected.

    Lions tour, due to negative tactics and SBW its a draw instead of a Lions win. Excuses are made ABs still the greatest go on kick everyones ass in the RC again despite the other teams being shite. Questions were not asked of ABs and carried 'woooohhh we're the best'



    Reality is whist in this cycle the AB's still belived they were 2015 good and they weren't and didn't really wake up to this fact until it was way too late. They are and still remain one of the best teams in the world but they are mortal now and have been all cycle. Only because other teams were so poor did they really not notice this.
     
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  14. Goodey

    Goodey Bench Player

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    England could face fine following their response to New Zealand’s haka

    A lot of coulds and possiblys in that article, so it's not really news. But this bit made me laugh

    “[Joe Marler] said he got confused,” Mako Vunipola said. “He thought he was supposed to go all the way around it and go to their 10. But because of that, he’s the one who has to pay the fine. He dishes it out a lot so the boys would be more than happy if he has to pay it.”
     
  15. Old Hooker

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    In the pro era maybe. Suspect the Welsh might mention the 70s......
     
  16. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    This is it, I think there was a bit of hubris from the coaching staff involved too. Last year they realised they needed to change when we beat them, they implemented the dual playmakers and thought it'd be grand.

    Thing is, at the end of 2018 Ireland weren't at a world cup winning level, things that both sides failed to realise. Ireland were better at the end of 2017 and 6n and it wasn't our best performance in our brief period at the top. England built on their own gameplan, continued the hard press and worked to cover the wide channels in behind with a more athletic back three and the dual playmakers were nullified and England have a more attacking back three and more dynamic backrow than Ireland had in that game too to do damage in attack.

    To be honest, I don't think there was much that could have been done without cloning Beauden and even then I'm not sure. England playing at that level with that start won't be beaten by the players NZ have but they used their 12 months leading up to this tournament almost as badly as we did.
     
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  17. Nudger

    Nudger Bench Player

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    They never beat the allblacks
     
  18. Nudger

    Nudger Bench Player

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    It looked to me that NZ played super rugby while England played test match rugby
     
  19. Tigs Man

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  20. ncurd

    ncurd International

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  21. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Hall of Fame

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    Oh i'm going to find all the articles from "experts" saying Ford should not be in the england squad over the last 12 months.

    #NotpettyIswear
     
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