[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

[TRF_heineken]

This plus you have to remember your hardest games in the pool was against the ABs at the start of the tournament. Your 12 days gap was preceded by a game against Canada and then you got Japan as a first knockout.

The luck of tournament has only meant England haven't had to play 5 tier 1 games in 4 weeks and thus completely shagged going into this. If anything it's evened things up rather than given an advantage.



The extra day between matches could be telling and I'm unsure why the semis are held on seperate days in a game like rugby

Yeah, that damn Typhoon has really messed up our plan. First we lose on purpose against the AB's, then demolish the other 3 teams, making sure we will make it to the playoffs, and then our tournament actually started.

Interesting stat, we had 96% tackle success rate against Wales, and PSDT made 22 tackles. This guy is like a Diesel Engine. And he's the one guy that never gets subbed.

 

[RugbyTackle91]

Yeah, that damn Typhoon has really messed up our plan. First we lose on purpose against the AB's, then demolish the other 3 teams, making sure we will make it to the playoffs, and then our tournament actually started.

Interesting stat, we had 96% tackle success rate against Wales, and PSDT made 22 tackles. This guy is like a Diesel Engine. And he's the one guy that never gets subbed.

Interesting, I imagine 96% tackle success says more about Wales running into brick walls over and over again than anything else

 

[ncurd]

Interesting, I imagine 96% tackle success says more about Wales running into brick walls over and over again than anything else

Yup whilst I imagine England won't be cutting through the defence like they've been able to so far this tournament, they certainly will be asking more questions of it than Wales was.

 

[Hydraulxx]

Yup whilst I imagine England won't be cutting through the defence like they've been able to so far this tournament, they certainly will be asking more questions of it than Wales was.

pretty sure any tier 2 team would be able to ask more questions, especially when Biggar was on the field. He made like -50m in the game

 

[Jimbo]

Yeah, that damn Typhoon has really messed up our plan. First we lose on purpose against the AB's, then demolish the other 3 teams, making sure we will make it to the playoffs, and then our tournament actually started.

Interesting stat, we had 96% tackle success rate against Wales, and PSDT made 22 tackles. This guy is like a Diesel Engine. And he's the one guy that never gets subbed.

To be fair Wales didn't have any real power athletes or play makers there was little intention of of running rugby for the
Majority of the game.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Our confidence should be sky high and we've had the extra day's rest. Mentally I don't think the ABs will have taken too much out of us because it wasn't a knife edge game. If there is any complacency I think Jones is the right guy to puncture it immediately.

The Boks will have to produce more than they showed against Wales. They may be a bit bigger than us but we won't be physically intimidated and we'll bring more attacking options. The Boks didn't manage to see off an injury ravaged / knackered / unambitious Wales until the last 5 minutes.

That's not to say that the Boks can't win, of course they can, but they'll have to bring more than brawn. Could be a fascinating contrast in styles. Louw might be a smart selection for them.

Just hope that we don't take any gambles with fitness in selection.

 

[Jer1cho]

Marx simply has to start. He is massive at the breakdown and offers way more than Mbonambi in open play. He dropped a tad but since getting bum splinters has been a massive game changer for us. I would drop Mostert as well and maybe bring in a different forward, or Willemse to spark something if needed.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Marx simply has to start. He is massive at the breakdown and offers way more than Mbonambi in open play. He dropped a tad but since getting bum splinters has been a massive game changer for us. I would drop Mostert as well and maybe bring in a different forward, or Willemse to spark something if needed.

I agree. I think Mostert is the lowest on the totem pole of all our locks. And Marx has been better when he came on the last 2 games than Mbonambi. Willemse is a good option as he can cover flyhalf, wing and fullback, and then we can keep Steyn as our back-up centre.

But I think even more importantly is that Cobus Reinach should be on the bench ahead of Jantjies. Especially because we're playing against England.

What is bothering me though is that I don't think Lukhanyo Am will be able to repeatedly stop Manu Tuilagi. So should we maybe move De Allende to 13 and bring in Steyn at 12? Then we also have the option of going for the 55m drop goals should this become kick-fest.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Marx simply has to start. He is massive at the breakdown and offers way more than Mbonambi in open play. He dropped a tad but since getting bum splinters has been a massive game changer for us. I would drop Mostert as well and maybe bring in a different forward, or Willemse to spark something if needed.

I'm with you on those points. Think the 4/3 split is better. Willemse for my money as well. Another question is will Kolbe be available (and is he fit- he looked a bit uncomfortable the last game). Again, I can't see Rassie drop a player (even if he really ought too) at this late stage so maybe that extra back on the bench could see us replace Le Roux if he doesn't pick up his act and get accurate.

On another note, do we know who might be refereeing this match. I think everyone was expecting Barnes with NZ SA final. TBH I wouldn't mind Barnes here despite the oppo being England but WR probably won't sanction a 'non neutral' referee.

What is bothering me though is that I don't think Lukhanyo Am will be able to repeatedly stop Manu Tuilagi. So should we maybe move De Allende to 13 and bring in Steyn at 12? Then we also have the option of going for the 55m drop goals should this become kick-fest.

Nah, Am is a tower on defense. Not as physically imposing as say Jaque Fourie was or a fit Frans Steyn but he won't be bowled over and his positioning and reading of play is sound... no, superb. More worried about space out wide on our wings than anything else.

 

[ncurd]

On another note, do we know who might be refereeing this match. I think everyone was expecting Barnes with NZ SA final. TBH I wouldn't mind Barnes here despite the oppo being England but WR probably won't sanction a 'non neutral' referee.

I'd love Barnes as he really doesn't allow teams to play cynically at the breakdown

He won't be allowed and rightly so. It'll be Garces or Owens and I suspect Garces.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Maybe this is a bit sentimental, but it would be nice if Barnes, Garces and Owens are involved in the final. All their last game.

 

[Pom in Exile]

Ugo Monye: No team can match Englands physicality.

Springbok fans:

There's always a bigger fish.

 

[Pom in Exile]

If South Africa wins, then Willie le Roux (he will be picked at 15) might become the worst player to win a World Cup.

I think Stephen Donald might have something to say about that.

 

[mdaclarke]

Head thinks England
Heart wants South Africa

I'm going Boks by 4

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm with you on those points. Think the 4/3 split is better. Willemse for my money as well. Another question is will Kolbe be available (and is he fit- he looked a bit uncomfortable the last game). Again, I can't see Rassie drop a player (even if he really ought too) at this late stage so maybe that extra back on the bench could see us replace Le Roux if he doesn't pick up his act and get accurate.

On another note, do we know who might be refereeing this match. I think everyone was expecting Barnes with NZ SA final. TBH I wouldn't mind Barnes here despite the oppo being England but WR probably won't sanction a 'non neutral' referee.



Nah, Am is a tower on defense. Not as physically imposing as say Jaque Fourie was or a fit Frans Steyn but he won't be bowled over and his positioning and reading of play is sound... no, superb. More worried about space out wide on our wings than anything else.

Based on the playoffs, it should only be Owens or Garces to be in charge. Peyper and Barnes will definitely not be part of the final.

My guess is that it will be Garces, with Owens and Poite as AR.

 

[Goodey]

Comfortably the two best defences in the tournament. What happens when the immovable object meets the immovable object?

SA will have more reason to kick against us than they did against Wales, who they had a physical advantage over and so trying to play territory wasn't especially necessary. Le Roux also isn't as reliable under the high ball as Halfpenny and it showed a bit. So I expect if they're intent on playing that way against Wales they will have no hesitation in doing so again.

England will be needing May or Nowell to be fit. I think May was played despite not having all his pace against NZ just in order to handle Mo'unga's kick passes. There is a time and a place for Cokanasiga and this is probably not it.

 

[Bull]

I really hope that Kolbe is fit, Nkosi made exactly the same mistake on defence as he has done previously and the English will make it count. Would be great if Willie is dropped but I doubt it'll happen. The Boks will get killed at the rucks if they don't counter Underhill. Garces was a bit inconsistent I felt, where he immediately pinned the Boks for holding on he let it slide when Wales did the same. The Boks still kick away too much possession and some of the kicks are aimless. The few times we did attack you could clearly see the holes open up, we need more of that and building phases.

A 5/3 bench with Mostert falling out would be a safer bet for the final.

 

[Goodey]

Based on the playoffs, it should only be Owens or Garces to be in charge. Peyper and Barnes will definitely not be part of the final.

My guess is that it will be Garces, with Owens and Poite as AR.

Probably yeah. Garces and Owens are seen as the most senior. O'Keefe and Berry are probably seen as not experienced enough, but I think both have been very good this tournament.

Skeen will be the TMO, all the others are South African or English.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I really hope that Kolbe is fit, Nkosi made exactly the same mistake on defence as he has done previously and the English will make it count. Would be great if Willie is dropped but I doubt it'll happen. The Boks will get killed at the rucks if they don't counter Underhill. Garces was a bit inconsistent I felt, where he immediately pinned the Boks for holding on he let it slide when Wales did the same. The Boks still kick away too much possession and some of the kicks are aimless. The few times we did attack you could clearly see the holes open up, we need more of that and building phases.

A 5/3 bench with Mostert falling out would be a safer bet for the final.

Some of the kicks were aimless, but some of them were very good, but did you see Pollard's face that one time he made a kick. He was furious because Mapimpi didn't chase it.

I think Kolbe is fit. It would've made no sense to keep him sidelined, and not call someone up if he wasn't able enough to play. I think we just gave him a some time to recover properly.

Kolbe up against May should be a very good contest.

Speaking of delicious match-ups:

Etzebeth vs. Itoje
PSDT vs. Underhill
Vermeulen vs. Vunipola
Faf vs. Youngs
Pollard vs. Ford
De Allende vs. Farrell

 

[Goodey]

We're all sticking with Ford-Farrell-Tuilagi right?

For me Slade has not been at the same level and we got away with it a bit vs Aus.