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[RWC2019][The Final] England vs. South Africa (02/11/2019)

Old Hooker

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I'm totally with Guscott in wanting to reduce the number of subs though.

Its ridiculous that at the end of a game you can have more players who didn't start than did. And if anyone argues that its for player welfare I'll bet that you can find medics who'll argue both sides of the equation.

A maximum of 5 feels about right.
 
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The Alpha Bro

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https://www.independent.ie/sport/ru...drug-use-may-never-be-unearthed-38677127.html

Pay attention to who you are replying to please.

It is ONLY the Irish who I have read tripe from. No other nation.
Our media has been after South African drug cheats since Gerbrandt Grobler signed with Munster. This was a discussion that was had before the world cup and during the world cup, because of Diyanti, Craven Week and speculation around that picture, and now after the world cup. So no, we don't just bring stuff up when we lose, if you wanted to bring up other gutter journalists of Francis ilk here you'd find one trying to out Jamie Heaslip as a drug cheat too! It's not something we take lightly in this country, we have a swimmer who won three golds and a bronze in the 96 Olympics who we dismiss despite her never having her medals taken off her and her sample tampering ban was an incident in 98.

It'd honestly be less credible if the drugs weren't brought up considering the pre tournament attention they were given here, the fact I know what craven week is now is solely because of kids getting caught taking PEDs.
 
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Jer1cho

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Our media has been after South African drug cheats since Gerbrandt Grobler signed with Munster. This was a discussion that was had before the world cup and during the world cup, because of Diyanti, Craven Week and speculation around that picture, and now after the world cup. So no, we don't just bring stuff up when we lose, if you wanted to bring up other gutter journalists of Francis ilk here you'd find one trying to out Jamie Heaslip as a drug cheat too! It's not something we take lightly in this country, we have a swimmer who won three golds and a bronze in the 96 Olympics who we dismiss despite her never having her medals taken off her and her sample tampering ban was an incident in 98.

It'd honestly be less credible if the drugs weren't brought up considering the pre tournament attention they were given here, the fact I know what craven week is now is solely because of kids getting caught taking PEDs.
So this in your opinion this is grounds to label a WC winning team with an Asterix behind the name because they are all drug abusers? Craven week has nothing to do with the Springboks. Diyanti was already caught out and is facing the music, while all the other players tested were fine. But whatever. Don't care anymore. We will be champions for 4 years regardless of the trash the losers throw at us.
 

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As far as steroid abuse goes, I think it's unfair to only target South Africa, their success and their breakthrough player of the year tested positively recently, making them an easier target. But steroid abuse is common and an endemic through ALL of the rugby nations who take the sports seriously, to single out South Africa as the only one of having a 'culture' of abuse isn't right. They should be targeting the sport in general. I know players at club level who have cycled to try get a professional contract, it's an unspoken fact of the sport at top level, let's be honest about it.
 

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So this in your opinion this is grounds to label a WC winning team with an Asterix behind the name because they are all drug abusers? Craven week has nothing to do with the Springboks. Diyanti was already caught out and is facing the music, while all the other players tested were fine. But whatever. Don't care anymore. We will be champions for 4 years regardless of the trash the losers throw at us.
One guy said there deserves to be an asterix and I've said Francis isn't worth listening to countless times on these boards, no one brings up what Stephen Jones says against Wales or England or what Gregor Paul says against NZers yet Francis always gets thrown in our face. You've gone after Ronan O'Gara and Brian O'Driscoll for being sour when in fact they gave balanced accounts of the game and praised SA. They just don't care enough to gush over the nation, why would they?

You also wrote the following:

Are the Irish like this in the 6 nations? When they don't win they focus on smearing the winners?
Talk about smearing as you post this? Jesus Christ would ya be well? Two genuine examples of shite journalism (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Gilroy, I haven't listened to his piece) and two fabricated ones to support your claim. You're obviously the one with the issue like.

What do I think of drugs? I don't like them, I think the sport almost certainly has a problem with them that they can't uncover and, separately, I think it's a bad sign when a bunch of schoolboys from the country that has the most professionals banned for PED use* were caught using them and South Africa should have a more serious attitude to them. I thought it was ridiculous when a poster on here, it could have been you but I forget, said "what a damn pity" that Diyanti is facing a four year ban and will miss 2023.

Do I think an asterisk should be put next to this win? No.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Doping_cases_in_rugby_union incomplete list but it's not a small sample either.
 

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I'm totally with Guscott in wanting to reduce the number of subs though.

Its ridiculous that at the end of a game you can have more players who didn't start than did. And if anyone argues that its for player welfare I'll bet that you can find medics who'll argue both sides of the equation.

A maximum of 5 feels about right.
How would 5 work a front row a forward and a back?

Or would all hookers have to also cover back row then a lock and a utility back who can cover 9 and 10?
 

Jer1cho

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One guy said there deserves to be an asterix and I've said Francis isn't worth listening to countless times on these boards, no one brings up what Stephen Jones says against Wales or England or what Gregor Paul says against NZers yet Francis always gets thrown in our face. You've gone after Ronan O'Gara and Brian O'Driscoll for being sour when in fact they gave balanced accounts of the game and praised SA. They just don't care enough to gush over the nation, why would they?
I am entitled to whatever opinion I deem fit on whatever I read or watch when my country and team are involved. You don't have to like it. To me, they are not 'Francis isn't worth listening to - because a trf poster said so'. To me they are an ex-player, with a reach far enough to hit our media. So what if I read and hear certain comments I think are crap? Why not stick to the game in discussion? Instead various other rhetoric is spouted, as we make our victory parade around the country. It's GOING to irritate some of us. If that irritates you then tough, as everything I have seen come from Ireland has been SHITE, and irritated me, and that's my opinion on it. Nobody needs you or your media to gush at all, as you did it enough after the England Semi while watching from the couches with your team and ex players. Look forward to the next game between the two, as I cannot wait to hear what comes after that one if this is but a taster when their team wasn't even involved.
 

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How would 5 work a front row a forward and a back?

Or would all hookers have to also cover back row then a lock and a utility back who can cover 9 and 10?
You can have a bench of 8 as now but only be able to use 5. There would have to be front row cover within the 8 but entirely up to the coach how to deploy the 5. If he wants to change his front row en masse in the 49th minute that’s fine but really limits his later options. Coaches would just have to be smarter and more cautious in their use of subs.
 

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I am entitled to whatever opinion I deem fit on whatever I read or watch when my country and team are involved. You don't have to like it. To me, they are not 'Francis isn't worth listening to - because a trf poster said so'. To me they are an ex-player, with a reach far enough to hit our media. So what if I read and hear certain comments I think are crap? Why not stick to the game in discussion? Instead various other rhetoric is spouted, as we make our victory parade around the country. It's GOING to irritate some of us. If that irritates you then tough, as everything I have seen come from Ireland has been SHITE, and irritated me, and that's my opinion on it. Nobody needs you or your media to gush at all, as you did it enough after the England Semi while watching from the couches with your team and ex players. Look forward to the next game between the two, as I cannot wait to hear what comes after that one if this is but a taster when their team wasn't even involved.
And I'm entitled to think you're talking brown... Which you are with sweeping statements and false statements.
 

Jer1cho

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And I'm entitled to think you're talking brown... Which you are with sweeping statements and false statements.
Yeah I'm talking just as much brown as your fellow countrymen. With their sweeping statements and false statements.

How many times would you like to go around the circle?
 

scotty507

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You can have a bench of 8 as now but only be able to use 5. There would have to be front row cover within the 8 but entirely up to the coach how to deploy the 5. If he wants to change his front row en masse in the 49th minute that’s fine but really limits his later options. Coaches would just have to be smarter and more cautious in their use of subs.
I played in a game like that in a final(amateur obv) but we didnt know until we had used our 5 subs and got told no more haha. Annoyingly i hadnt played yet.

In that i get the positives but feel bad for the players on the bench especially when you have a young guys they may have them there but only use them if they are in a position to win.
 

Jer1cho

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Hard to disagree because if you applied the same logic your using with "the Irish" you'd agree with Francis that Diyanti and the schoolboys put an asterisk next to 2019!
Your writers represent you. Your ex players represent you. From the outside, that's how it is. What I read, and what I watched, from various sources, I deem as hogwash. I honestly don't care what you make of that.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Your writers represent you. Your ex players represent you.
Absolute ********.

I take it you're for the quota system then?
And agree with all the idiotic things P Divvy has spewed in his time?

I mean, the views of one South African represents the views of every single other South African after all.
 

Jer1cho

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Absolute ********.

I take it you're for the quota system then?
And agree with all the idiotic things P Divvy has spewed in his time?

I mean, the views of one South African represents the views of every single other South African after all.
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't care how many people disagree or agree with public figures, the point is their words are the loudest, and have the farthest reach. Everything is there for interpretation. If you don't agree with mine then so be it.
 

Pom in Exile

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Don't put words in my mouth. I don't care how many people disagree or agree with public figures, the point is their words are the loudest, and have the farthest reach. Everything is there for interpretation. If you don't agree with mine then so be it.
Mate, you’re being a hypocrite, dial it down won’t you. Apparently ‘roids make people angry and unreasonable...:oops:
 

Jer1cho

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Mate, you’re being a hypocrite, dial it down won’t you. Apparently ‘roids make people angry and unreasonable...:oops:
Yeah. And losing makes people sour and salty. Guess it just keeps balancing itself out.
 

Pom in Exile

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Yeah. And losing makes people sour and salty. Guess it just keeps balancing itself out.
The weird thing is that as each day passes all the sourness and saltiness seems to emanate from SA posters. You guys are on the hunt for anybody who isn’t actively fawning over the Boks. I’d say just enjoy the win fellas but I think that ship has sailed.
 
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