SA rugby

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by stormer2010, Sep 28, 2009.

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SA rugby

  1. Sharks

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  2. Western Province

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  3. Griquas

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  4. Blue Bulls

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  5. Cheetahs

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  6. Golden Lions

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  1. stormer2010

    stormer2010 Guest

    2009 is coming to a close and what a year it was for South African rugby. This topic is concerned with happenings in the Currie cup and with the Springbok end of year tour.

    Currie cup;

    Two teams, in the Sharks and Western Province, are already assured of at least a spot in the semi's and with a relatively easy draw for the final two rounds and a decent lead they should finish in 1st and 2nd place. Province needing 1 more point to level scores and edge table topping Sharks on points differential. The Blue Bulls having edged the Cheetahs in a close game during the weekend have made live difficult for the Cheetahs and with their Boks' return one would imagine that they should finish 3rd. With the Lions' chances of making the semi's purely a mathematical one, that leaves the Griquas and the Cheetahs. Griquas are 8 points ahead on the log but face a nightmare close to the tournament in facing both the Sharks and the Bulls. Cheetahs on the other hand should run away in their next two fixtures against CC minnows Leopards and Boland. I would think that the Cheetahs should pick up the possible 10 points leaving Griquas needing to beat either the Sharks or Bulls as 2 bonus points for losing by less than 7 won't help with their poor points differential compared to that of the Cheetahs.

    I guess Dawie Theron and Griqua supporters are hoping for rain in Wellington and crossing their fingers.


    My prediction; well, I'm hoping for a WP vs Bulls final in Newlands.

    Springbok end of year tour;

    Apparently Peter de Villiers is taking a squad of 37 players along for the end of year tour. With the departure of Jean de Villiers and Francois Steyn to play European club rugby that creates a possibility of a considerable amount of new faces in the Bok squad. PdV tested his depth against the B & I Lions in the third test this year without success but I hope that some of these players don't pay for that as the Lions were a quality side and it was foolhardy to make wholesale change and expect victory. It would be a shame to not see the likes of Zane Kirschner not play for the Boks again based on that one match. I wonder if it is also the reason Olivier and Kankowski have hardly seen a game after the tour.

    That said, the emerging Springboks and some show of form in the Curry cup makes me hopeful of South African rugby indeed having the depth to continue to go from strength to strength. Even barring PdV not reconsidering his policy on the non selection of overseas based players. The name Juan de Jongh springs to mind and he is an automatic inclusion in my opinion and it should be a battle between him and Wynand Olivier for the no12 jersey. The departure of Frans Steyn leaves the current Bok squad without a recognized fullback again and as I hope that PdV won't opt for Ruan Pienaar in that position again and with the best player in SA in Stefan Terblanche probably not going to get a call up due to age that probably leaves Zane Kirschner as PdV's likely choice. I do hope, though, that Griquas' Riaan Viljoen at leasts gets some consideration as I believe that he has been the best fullback in the Currie cup this season behind Terblanche.

    Apart form that one would expect the usual suspects and probably some surprise selections. This is Peter de Villiers we are talking about. There have been rumors of the inclusion of winger Lionell Mapoe and Bok sevens player Mpho Mbiyozo. Both exciting players but they face tough competition, especially with SA's depth of talent in the loose forward dept. The names of Dewald Potgieter, Jean Deysel, Duane Vermeulen, Willem Alberts and Francois Louw should be mentioned. One can only hope that PdV does not continue to force the issue of Earl Rose. How any national coach can select a player that does not play for his province if the provincial coach can help it is beyond me. I would also hope that apart from young players getting some exposure, this tour gives regulars who have not shown their class this year a chance to validate their continued selection. Players like Schalk Burger, Ricky Januarie, Andries Bekker, Guthro Steenkamp, Adi Jacobs, Ryan Kankowski, Jannie de Beer, Ruan Pienaar, Pierre Spies and Wynand Olivier have either not had game time or had not shown why they deserve game time. It would also be interesting how our scrum fairs against our Northern foes. I for one am still not convinced of the move of John Smit to prop but if it manages having both the best hooker currently playing and arguably the most inspirational test captain ever in the same front row line-up is probably worth the struggle.

    My picks for a 37 man squad;

    Backs;
    Fourie du Preez, Jano Vermaak, Ruan Pienaar, Morne Steyn, Peter Grant, Morgan Newman, Jacque Fourie, Juan de Jongh, Adrian Jacobs, Wynand Olivier, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Joe Pietersen, Lionell Mapoe, Gerhard van der Heever, Zane Kirschner, Riaan Viljoen

    Forwards;
    Tendai Mtawarira, WP Nel, Brok Harris, John Smit, Jannie du Plessis, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Andries Bekker, Anton van Zyl, Steven Sykes, Heinrich Brussouw, Juan Smith, Schalk Burger, Dewald Potgieter, Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Pierre Spies, Ryan Kankowski

    but I guess my selections show my WP biased :p
     
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  3. stormer2010

    stormer2010 Guest

    Plus Francois Hougaard has been a revelation at the Bulls.. wouldn't mind seeing him in the mix.
     
  4. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Guest

    Zane Kirchner is ****. He is nothing even close to Springbok material. I hope Tonderai Chavhanga goes on tour, as well as Dewald Potgieter.
     
  5. stormer2010

    stormer2010 Guest

    Jer1cho, Potgieter is an automatic inclusion; reminds me of Schalla in 2004. My other automatic pick is Juan de Jongh. Willem Alberts and Francois Hougaard also impressed.

    Who would you have at fullback?

    Terblanche; whats the point, the guy is probably the best in SA at the mo but is already over 30. We need to blood someone that might play in 2011. Steyn should be back but we need back up. Jantjes should be fit but I don't rate him. I would rather see Joe Pietersen run out for Province than Jantjes nevermind the Bokke.

    I rate Viljoen but with the political pressure on PdV I think he will go with Kirschner and to say the guy is **** is a bit unfair; more solid than Jantjes, Pienaar, Daniller, Ludik and Pietersen (Joe) at the back if no Andre Joubert.

    Another option is playing either JP Pietersen or Jacque Fourie at 15 again where I believe we have the depth in quality centers but not so sure about wingers; Habana and Pietersen are both in the world top 5 wingers IMO. Between de Villiers (although his gone along with Frans so I guess he doesn't count for 2010), Olivier, Jacobs, de Jongh, Newman, Ebersohn possibly even Hougaard we have got some good centers even if some of them are out of form or a bit green.

    To expect that SA should have someone among the world's top 3 in every position is a bit unrealistic. If someone were to step up it would be Frans Steyn or Riaan Viljoen IMO, though.
     
  6. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Guest

    Why not just play Ruan Pienaar at fullback again? In the absence of Francois Steyn, he is my first pick at 15.

    My touring XV will be:

    1. Beast Mtawarira
    2. Bismark du Plessis
    3. John Smit
    4. Bakkies Botha
    5. Victor Matfield
    6. Heinrich Brussouw
    7. Dewald Potgieter
    8. Ryan Kankowski (deserves his chance now.)

    9. Fourie du Preez

    10. Morne Steyn
    11. Bryan Habana
    12. Wynand Olivier
    13. Jacque Fourie
    14. Tonderai Chavhanga
    15. Ruan Pienaar
     
  7. stormer2010

    stormer2010 Guest

    Good line up in terms of consistency I guess but what if he or Morne gets injured? Also don't rate him at all at the back and would rather have him cover the 9/10 position from the bench. Potgieter reminds me of Schalla in 2004 with his hair, bulk and workrate. Would also like to seee him get a go. Not too sure about Olivier and Fourie as a pair; too similar type players. I would play de Jongh at inside but have Olivier on the bench.

    My 1st choice line up for the tour then, even if somewhat experimental;

    1 Beast
    2 Bismark
    3 Smit (I still need to be convinced about this frontrow and hopefully this tour shows yay or nay)
    4 Bakkies
    5 Matfield
    6 Brussouw
    7 Potgieter
    8 Kankowski (I'm with you 100% as I rate both him and Alberts higher than Spies who disappears for long periods)
    9 du Preez
    10 Steyn
    11 Habana
    12 de Jongh
    13 Fourie
    14 Pietersen
    15 Kirschner

    16 WP Nel
    17 Brok Harris
    18 Anton van Zyl
    19 Juan Smith
    20 Jano Vermaak
    21 Ruan Pienaar
    22 Wynand Olivier
     
  8. stormer2010

    stormer2010 Guest

    ..but everyone has their own ideas and I would be happy as long as Rose doesn't get picked and some of the guys who have put their hands up in the Currie cup get rewarded ahead of players that might not have shown form for some time; Burger, Januarie, Bekker, Ralepelle, Spies etc.

    Otherwise what is the point of trying to perform well in both the Currie cup if you have no chance for higher honors or the Bok jersey if you can't be dropped once your in? Just my opinion.
     
  9. Steve-o

    Steve-o Guest

    Thing is PdV has heavily hinted he's going to take a developmental squad over the Europe this year, to aid in 'player management'. Guys like Matfield, Botha, Du Preez, Bismarck, Smith, etc will probably play back-up, if they even go.
    Jake White did the same thing back in 2006 where guys like Frans Steyn, Bevin Fortuin (cringe), Gary Botha, Hilton Lobberts (CRINGE), Chilliboy Ralepelle and Akona Ndungane made their debuts. I think it's important that we do this every so often, we need to. The end-of-year games are meaningless, and it's better to risk losing games away from home as losing at home is unacceptable to be frank. We Bok supporters need to put our egos away for this EOY tour because the best Springbok is not going up.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormer2010 @ Sep 28 2009, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    YA THINK?!
    I've never read/heard/fathomed Brok Harris and the Springboks in the same sentence. My head hurts now...
     
  10. That Willem deWall or whatever his name was impressed me both from what I've seen of the Currie Cup and against the Liosn both times.
     
  11. Steve-o

    Steve-o Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Sep 28 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Unfortunately for Willem, he'll never play for the Boks. Great Currie Cup player, extremely average S14 player. And at the age of 31 it wouldn't be worth investing time in him.
     
  12. stormer2010

    stormer2010 Guest

    Ja, as much as I am thankful to de Waal for what his done for the emerging bokke and wp recently its time conrad hoffman gets blooded. As for him making the Bok squad, I just can't see that happening.

    Steve-o, Brok Harris is the ****. Pity we won't see him face the Sharks front row again this year as the Sharks are going to lose their semi final against the Bulls. Pity, really.
     
  13. Steve-o

    Steve-o Guest

    :lol:
    Oh boy!
    Funny thing is I was just about to agree with you but I realized I read the post wrong. I read "Harris is ****".
    Jannie Du Plessis is about the same age as him, you feel it would be better investing time in him than a prop who can't even scrum. We have MUCH better prospects at tighthead than Harris. Coenie Oosthuizen comes to mind, and Wiehahn Herbst looks more of a future star than him. Sorry but in my books Harris is a 'no go'. Plus WP hasn't produced a world class prop in 8 years.
     
  14. Steve-o

    Steve-o Guest

    YAY! Looks like we are indeed going up with a strong squad. Not only that but PdV promises no quota players.
    Just to add to that, PdV also stated Jean De Villiers and Frans Steyn won't be considered for the Autumn Internationals

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
    Source
     
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