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Sam Cane announced as All Blacks Captain

The_Blindside

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52544555

Foster was always grooming him for it since he came on the AB scene. Though surprised he didn’t go for Sam Whitelock. But he’s in Japan on sabatical atm. But could still play for the ABs when matches resume.
 

Jabby

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TRF_heineken

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Is there a specific reason why they made the announcement today? Most countries are on lockdown and there isn't any sports going on atm. Why would they make this announcement, when there is no clear sign/indication when rugby will be played again?
 

RedruthRFC

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Is there a specific reason why they made the announcement today? Most countries are on lockdown and there isn't any sports going on atm. Why would they make this announcement, when there is no clear sign/indication when rugby will be played again?

Why not is a more valid a question IMO. I can't see any downsides. On the upside, we're talking about this and not their PR blunder re: Fiji and Samoa.
 

The_Blindside

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Is there a specific reason why they made the announcement today? Most countries are on lockdown and there isn't any sports going on atm. Why would they make this announcement, when there is no clear sign/indication when rugby will be played again?

Hi Heineken, can you please change the title to the thread to “Sam Cane announced as All Blacks’ captain”.

Don’t know why or how James got included.:p
 

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Is there a specific reason why they made the announcement today? Most countries are on lockdown and there isn't any sports going on atm. Why would they make this announcement, when there is no clear sign/indication when rugby will be played again?
He was told two months ago, they delayed announcing it due to covid, when it became clearer that there would be no rugby this year they probably just didn’t want it to leak or thought it wasn’t fair on Sam to keep it secret for a year
 

Larksea

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Ian Foster has had a close relationship with Sam Cane since Cane was in highschool, foster spotted his potential and groomed him for the chiefs.
IMO This doesn't stick of favoritism though. Cane and Sam Whitelock are the clear top contenders, whitelock has a Japan contract and hes also 31 (32 in october) meaning he will be pretty old for the next world cup. Cane is 28 (end of January) and should still be playing his best come '23 where whitelock will be 34+ and will have to look after himself really well to still be in the mix.
This does open up the Savea vs Cane Debate even further.
IMO Savea may be NZ's best overall player and one of the best players in the world.
But IMO Same Cane is NZ's best "test openside flanker". He is the guy we need in the big games, he's probably the most effective defender in the world. Not starting Cane against England last year was a dire mistake. Cane excels in subtle areas of the game that don't make highlight reels. Savea can still play a critical role in the squad as part of the 23 but IMO his best role is as a supersub. IMO he does not have the genuine height or bulk to play 6 or 8. But hes so good its a very hard decision to make.
 

mania

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But IMO Same Cane is NZ's best "test openside flanker".
agree. ardie is a better athelete but samCane is a better openSide. ardie being a better specimen also means he's more versatile.
just leave cane to do what he does from 7 and im happy.
the ardie vs cane debate is over for now. cane 7; ardie 8 or 6
 

Jabby

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i would prefer the captain to be streets ahead of the opposition for his position though,

with most other players, a bit of pressure can bring out the best but the captain has enough to worry about without looking over his shoulder too much

we have some good loosies coming through
 

Umaga's Witness

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i would prefer the captain to be streets ahead of the opposition for his position though,

with most other players, a bit of pressure can bring out the best but the captain has enough to worry about without looking over his shoulder too much

we have some good loosies coming through
Indeed, trouble being there is no great alternative for captain. Whitelock is way too old, and none of those that aren't too old can guarantee their position in the team. Brodie retallick could I guess.

In terms of good loosies coming through, how good are they? Luke Jacobson is maybe the business, Cullen grace maybe in the future but too error prone at the moment, hoskins sotutu needs to be tested against the boks, that's always been where we find out if a forward can step up. Du plessis kirifi is too small for test rugby, lachlan boshier? Not sure. If the opposition can nullify his turnover game, does he offer enough of anything else? Dalton papalii isn't too bad, he's big and strong and can play 6 just as well as 7. I'm not sure if he's exceptional though. Akira ione? He seems to have lost some of his power.

In terms of the captaincy, I would have gone for something slightly out of the box. Like Co captains, perhaps a starting captain and a finishing captain, perhaps someone on the bench. Go for cane starting and tj finishing. Or in the same position like beauden and Richie.

Or make someone young captain but have an old leadership team around him.
 

Jabby

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Indeed, trouble being there is no great alternative for captain. Whitelock is way too old, and none of those that aren't too old can guarantee their position in the team. Brodie retallick could I guess.

In terms of good loosies coming through, how good are they? Luke Jacobson is maybe the business, Cullen grace maybe in the future but too error prone at the moment, hoskins sotutu needs to be tested against the boks, that's always been where we find out if a forward can step up. Du plessis kirifi is too small for test rugby, lachlan boshier? Not sure. If the opposition can nullify his turnover game, does he offer enough of anything else? Dalton papalii isn't too bad, he's big and strong and can play 6 just as well as 7. I'm not sure if he's exceptional though. Akira ione? He seems to have lost some of his power.

In terms of the captaincy, I would have gone for something slightly out of the box. Like Co captains, perhaps a starting captain and a finishing captain, perhaps someone on the bench. Go for cane starting and tj finishing. Or in the same position like beauden and Richie.

Or make someone young captain but have an old leadership team around him.
not always a huge Co Captain fan...but this might have been a good option here. the choice wasn't obvious like Richie or Fitz so dont dump it all on one guy
 

mania

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No way. Hart tried that with taine Randell and it tore the team apart
 

mania

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Whitelock cane and retallick were the only true choices. Captain has to have respect of the players
 

Jabby

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No way. Hart tried that with taine Randell and it tore the team apart
tried what? co captains? who was Taine co captain with?
 

mania

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tried what? co captains? who was Taine co captain with?
No sorry appointing a captain that doesnt deserve it at the moment
 

Jabby

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No sorry appointing a captain that doesnt deserve it at the moment
i think that's harsh on Taine, i think Blackadder or even Thorne are more obvious examples, captain of a champion crusaders doesn't mean you deserve to be an allblack, it mainly means you have an amazing team, Taine stood out in a Highlanders team that largely struggled, 1999 being the culmination of some hard graft
 

mania

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i think that's harsh on Taine, i think Blackadder or even Thorne are more obvious examples, captain of a champion crusaders doesn't mean you deserve to be an allblack, it mainly means you have an amazing team, Taine stood out in a Highlanders team that largely struggled, 1999 being the culmination of some hard graft
There were more deserving captains at the time. Ian Jones to name one. Taine was too young and hadn’t been in the ABs long enough to deserve any real respect. Hart used him because he was a perfect poster boy of what hart thought. Figure head should appear. Tall good looking educated part Maori.
 

Umaga's Witness

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There were more deserving captains at the time. Ian Jones to name one. Taine was too young and hadn’t been in the ABs long enough to deserve any real respect. Hart used him because he was a perfect poster boy of what hart thought. Figure head should appear. Tall good looking educated part Maori.
Speaking of poster boy, and I know you aren’t suggesting it should be considered, but Sam cane is about the worst poster boy we could have. He’s the most stereotypical simple white rural person you will find in New Zealand, and will only serve to keep that section of all blacks support which has remained loyal over the last 25 years, during which time there has been some major loss or shifting of loyalties amongst other subcultures. Educated white city boys and girls Are no longer particularly interested in rugby, Especially left wing leaning ones, small town Maori still have some interest but their level of passion has diminished, many Aucklanders, Polynesian and white, have shifted allegiance to league.

rugby being seen as the rich white boys game, governed by them, coached, captained, and all looking after their own, doesn’t help keep the rugby culture strong.

I’m not saying there was any great alternatives though, except maybe a co-captain idea could have helped push the view that the all blacks represent multi-cultural New Zealand.

Ideally there would be a public figure in rugby representing the educated left wing. Tj is probably the closest we have; he is outspoken about gay rights and mental health, as are Ardie, Brad Weber, and Anton Lienert-Brown brown. But they need to be more public than they currently are, so the fringe supporters see it. Tj is also outspoken about educating himself, for example in learning the te reo Maori. We can’t really expect rugby players to be tertiary educated these days as they are playing rugby instead of getting tertiary qualifications.

ideally there would be a public figure in rugby representing Polynesians. Who are the next Polynesian superstars? We have Ardie, the rest are quiet humble types. They probably need a bigger voice.

what about Maori? There are No true, immersed in the culture, Maori in the all blacks at the moment. Tj is probably the best here because, while he has felt like a “plastic” Maori, he outwardly respects the Maori culture and is trying to learn more about it.

so, on pure poster boy status, tj and Ardie could be co-captains. Maybe Ardie starts as captain, tj comes off the bench and becomes the new captain.

now, back to your point of requiring the captain to have the respect of the players, I think tj has, but isn’t first choice starter. Maybe he could have been a co-captain with Sam Whitelock, and Ardie brought into the leadership group for an apprenticeship. 2 years later Whitelock steps down, with Ardie moving into a co-captain role. Or, Sam cane as captain, Ardie and tj as official vice captains.
 
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