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Samoa is the most improved International team!

Le_Manu

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Ok, so we all know that the most improved award is the one that no one wants to receive!

However, one cannot overlook the strides that the Manu Samoa have taken over the past 3-4 years that sees them ranked 7th in the world and definitely, in my eyes, the most improved international team!

This is made all the more special considering the drama and obstacles Samoa have encountered during this period (some have been well documented and others not so)
In the past Samoa has suffered from inconsistency, something common to the smaller unions. After the 2011 RWC, it would've been assumed by many, that Samoa would go back to being the underdogs. Winning a big game here and there, but not really performing at a consistent high level. This assumption is far from the reality that Samoa have built for themselves at present. They have maintained the high standards over the past 2-3 years and this is due to consistency in coaching (to a degree) and the fact that they are building a strong team who have played together now for 10-20 test matches.

They are also starting to pick up players, who in the past would have chosen the bright lights and great hights of playing for All Blacks or Australia. The likes of Alapati Leiua, a certainty for the All Blacks training camp, is a big signing for Samoa. Kahn Fotuali'i is another. I hope this trend continues, as so many Island players are taken out of international rugby because they play one or two games for ABs or Aussy and then are not wanted any more. Masaga and Laulala are perfect examples. Only playing 1 or 2 test matches and not being good enough to play again. A question, how good would RWC 2011 have been if we had the BEST players at the time playing on the world stage? (Im sure this is a question for another time, but something to ponder nonetheless).

Samoa is starting to reach its potential. They are a small nation (180 000) but by God do they push above their weight. All they need now is a lot of funding and professional management and who knows how good they can get. I have always backed the underdog, and Samoa has always been my team! I know they can win this week end against S.A and really shake the Rugby World up one more time!

Go The Manu

Soifua :)
 
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Great post Manu. Totally agree. I know that Samoans like role models and its great to see that guys like Lima and Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu can be looked up to by the next generation and want to emulate their heroes and wanting to wear the Samoan shirt. Just like Michael Jones who was the reason for thousands of Samoan kids wanted to wear the AB jersey.
 
Definitely the most improved int'l side, no question wtsoever.

The thing I'd like to say is this: well actually I've been saying it for a while now - but Samoa is a force to be reckoned with now, and everybody knows that. They just got rid of Scotland more or less easily, and rolled over Italy simply. That's coming off a thrashing in Canada, a big upset in Cardiff, and a fairly close contest in France when France was one fire.
Here's my notion: Samoa can no longer play the upset game at a certain extent - of COURSE beating the Boks for the 1st time ever, IN South Africa would be a big upset - but for the rest they are now big boys and when they fail must be dealt with accordingly.

Samoa getting smashed by NZ theoretically in the near future or any strong Tier 1 nation, they must pay the subsequent price. They can no longer say things like "oh yeh but I mean we're small and this and that", it's all on them - 100% responsibility now.
 
Totally agree with you sifplay. Role models are the key and kids are seeing that the Blue jersey has some worth! They are seeing Samoa as their first option, not their last!
 
Definitely the most improved int'l side, no question wtsoever.

The thing I'd like to say is this: well actually I've been saying it for a while now - but Samoa is a force to be reckoned with now, and everybody knows that. They just got rid of Scotland more or less easily, and rolled over Italy simply. That's coming off a thrashing in Canada, a big upset in Cardiff, and a fairly close contest in France when France was one fire.
Here's my notion: Samoa can no longer play the upset game at a certain extent - of COURSE beating the Boks for the 1st time ever, IN South Africa would be a big upset - but for the rest they are now big boys and when they fail must be dealt with accordingly.

Samoa getting smashed by NZ theoretically in the near future or any strong Tier 1 nation, they must pay the subsequent price. They can no longer say things like "oh yeh but I mean we're small and this and that", it's all on them - 100% responsibility now.

A change in attitudes is needed, I agree yoe91. This should start from the top. IRB recognising that we are a tier 1 team and giving us, like this international season, more games with tier 1 nations. The All Blacks are apparently booked out for the next 3-4 years they say and declined an invitation from Fiji to play them to celebrate 100 years of fijian rugby. Pretty rude considering they poach the best Fijian players! Its attitudes like this that need to change.
 
A change in attitudes is needed, I agree yoe91. This should start from the top. IRB recognising that we are a tier 1 team and giving us, like this international season, more games with tier 1 nations. The All Blacks are apparently booked out for the next 3-4 years they say and declined an invitation from Fiji to play them to celebrate 100 years of fijian rugby. Pretty rude considering they poach the best Fijian players! Its attitudes like this that need to change.

;) You must be new here.
 
A change in attitudes is needed, I agree yoe91. This should start from the top. IRB recognising that we are a tier 1 team and giving us, like this international season, more games with tier 1 nations. The All Blacks are apparently booked out for the next 3-4 years they say and declined an invitation from Fiji to play them to celebrate 100 years of fijian rugby. Pretty rude considering they poach the best Fijian players! Its attitudes like this that need to change.

I can hear the kiwis typing from here, brace yourself.
 
The first rule of TRF is: You do not talk about poaching.
The second rule of TRF is: You do NOT talk about the All Blacks poaching Pacific Islanders.
;)
 
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The first rule of TRF is: You do not talk about poaching.
The second rule of TRF is: You do NOT talk about the All Blacks poaching Pacific Islanders.
;)

Thank you for explaining the rules. I don't want the attention to go away from my thread, but I do get really upset when AB fans say "there are heaps of kiwis in that Samoan team"
 
Ah, I am no fan of the All Blacks, but the poaching myth is incredibly overblown.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/bornoverseas.ASP?stats_ID=8

A myth overblowen but yet you provide evidence to back me up..hmmmm dont get you're logic here.

Don't get me started on AB's poaching. I am a Samoan born, living in NZ for over 22 years. I know what I am talking about when I say AB's poach! My problem is when they take and take and take and when the islands ask for something in return, we get a straight NO!....so you're telling me you can't accept Fiji's invite to play a game to celebrate their 100years citing the fact they have a busy schedule, yet turn around and say they are considering sending a B' strength team to Japan???? with $$$$ in their eyes!!! Really, don't get me started on AB's poaching!
 
I for one cannot wait for Smartcookie to assault this thread.
 
I prefer my Figians sunny side up rather than poached.

And Somoans are best scrambled...with cheese.















das
 
A myth overblowen but yet you provide evidence to back me up..hmmmm dont get you're logic here.

Don't get me started on AB's poaching. I am a Samoan born, living in NZ for over 22 years. I know what I am talking about when I say AB's poach! My problem is when they take and take and take and when the islands ask for something in return, we get a straight NO!....so you're telling me you can't accept Fiji's invite to play a game to celebrate their 100years citing the fact they have a busy schedule, yet turn around and say they are considering sending a B' strength team to Japan???? with $$$$ in their eyes!!! Really, don't get me started on AB's poaching!
There isn't a single player in the current NZ team that was born in the PIs?

On the other hand, Samoa is basically half made up of people born in NZ?

I mean, I don't mind residency rules and everything, but it's a bit of an odd argument to pick...
 
A myth overblowen but yet you provide evidence to back me up..hmmmm dont get you're logic here.

Don't get me started on AB's poaching. I am a Samoan born, living in NZ for over 22 years. I know what I am talking about when I say AB's poach! My problem is when they take and take and take and when the islands ask for something in return, we get a straight NO!....so you're telling me you can't accept Fiji's invite to play a game to celebrate their 100years citing the fact they have a busy schedule, yet turn around and say they are considering sending a B' strength team to Japan???? with $$$$ in their eyes!!! Really, don't get me started on AB's poaching!

I'm bored of explaining why you're wrong. The victim mentality is sad, but the world and NZ doesn't owe you anything. The Samoa Rugby Union survive off NZRU's charity and then bite the hand that feeds them.
 
Thirteen Samoan-born All Blacks.
I am willing to bet that there have been hat many kiwis in a single Samoan 22. (At least that many in the 2011 RWC squad).

Now the All Black are really poaching from the ockers!
 
Le_Manu, I'll explain why we get a bit annoyed when NZ are accused of poaching Islanders and doing nothing for the Islands.

1) Eight All Blacks (in 100 years) were born in Fiji. I think it's pretty safe to assume that more Fiji rugby players were born in New Zealand than the other way round. Really, the Fijians are bigger poachers than the All Blacks are.

2) Take Samoa as a case in point, we'll use Paul Williams as an example. Williams was born and bred in New Zealand - all of his training comes from our resources. NZ has invested a truck load of time in him, to the point where he made the New Zealand training squad. Now he plays for Samoa. NZ is heavily investing in the Islands by producing Island players constantly. Paul Williams would be no where near the player he is today if it weren't for New Zealand. There are a huge number of cases like this. Even players born in the Islands come to New Zealand and get a good rugby education and end up playing for their home Island. This doesn't annoy me - far from it! It's great that the Islands get this huge boost. What annoys me is when people accuse NZ of poaching players, when in reality it is the complete opposite. If it weren't for New Zealand, Samoa and the likes would not be anywhere near as good as they are today.

3) I too think it's a bit disappointing that NZ did not play Fiji for their centenary. That being said, there's no realistic way the game could've been played at this point in the year - it would have to be at the end of the year. The calendar is full at the moment, and has been for some time. Players would be completely burnt out if we were to throw an extra game on at the end of the Rugby Championship. The Fiji game could've potentially been played instead of the Japanese game, before the end of year tour. That being said, I think Japan will benefit hugely from having the All Blacks tour their (ever so briefly) as it will boost the game a bit for the 2019 World Cup. It's not like NZ is just grabbing money, they are helping the rugby community too - just not the particular country you think they should be helping (which is a completely fair view to take, I don't necessarily disagree with it!).

While your suggestions that we should be giving Samoa more time is completely reasonable, and the IRB DO need to do something about getting more Tier 1 games for Samoa, your poaching claim is unfounded (hopefully you're a bit more educated on the matter now!), and to suggest that NZ doesn't do much for the Island nations is simply incorrect. It's good to have another supporter of the Island nations here on the Forum though, so enjoy yourself! Just don't go suggest NZ are poachers ;)

EDIT: Just had a look at the Samoan team for the match against South Africa coming up. Of the starting XV, Williams, Leota, Su'a, Lam, Leo, Paulo, Johnston and Avei were all born in NZ, with a number of them spending a lot of time with NZ provincial and Super Rugby teams. The numbers speak for themselves, really.
 
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Poachers? Nah.


Spear tackling thugs? Now, you could have a point there.
 

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