SANZAAR to cut 3 teams in 2018

[Car]

Did we already discuss turning it into a Champions Cup kind of competition? Rugbypass posted this:
https://news.rugbypass.com/view/look-north-heal-super-rugbys-wounds

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I've suggested that loads of times, unfortunately it's not a popular idea

Generally people think the ABs have to play top level every year or people won't watch so can't risk "their team" not making , amongst other issues

Personally I like to watch some random player have a blinder out of the blue just as much as I like seeing thE ABs do what they do most games

I follow my team, not just the players

 

[welshglory]

I think a cup style comp could be the way to go or at least using the seeding and pool system. It would at least stem the tide of whining and moaning from some complaining about the conference system being unfair. I can't see them contracting the teams anymore after this and a round robin league is not viable.

 

[mdaclarke]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40448854

The rumours about the Cheetah's and Kings joining the Pro 12 are still there. Although I don't think they should play any of their home games in London.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Also means the Bulls are safe and really makes it pretty certain that an Oz side will have to go.

I've also seen various reports about the Force hiring or retaining staff and players so I wonder if that means they are out of the firing line? Are there similar reports around the Rebels and Brumbies?

 

[Car]

Yes, there was about the Rebels, they signed Geoff Parling and they locked in Harrison Goddard.

I did a quick search and also found this:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/r...k=df16ab305f35ac2b67dd24c462f3d4fe-1498997034
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2017–18_Super_Rugby_transfers#Rebels
and especially this:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...their-super-rugby-future-20170629-gx1g4q.html

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Also means the Bulls are safe and really makes it pretty certain that an Oz side will have to go.

I've also seen various reports about the Force hiring or retaining staff and players so I wonder if that means they are out of the firing line? Are there similar reports around the Rebels and Brumbies?

Brumbies have confirmed they will not be cut.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

The Rebels have made as many signings as the force. I'm not sure what this means as the Rebels haven't signed a coach - I don't think we'll know until the season is finished and if the Brumbies are somehow implicated then they will keep a lid on it until the finals are completed.

The ARU did say that the Brumbies are not in the firing line but that was long before they realised that the process was not going to be as smooth as they thought and there was going to be significant push back.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

The Rebels have made as many signings as the force. I'm not sure what this means as the Rebels haven't signed a coach - I don't think we'll know until the season is finished and if the Brumbies are somehow implicated then they will keep a lid on it until the finals are completed.

The ARU did say that the Brumbies are not in the firing line but that was long before they realised that the process was not going to be as smooth as they thought and there was going to be significant push back.

That is pretty much interpretation; that goalposts may be moved given the robust pushback by Rebels and
Force.

It sounds like Force assistant coach Ledesma may have rejected an approach from the Jaguares to be head coach. Something you surely wouldn't do unless you'd had an assurance. But frankly, who knows!

 

[mdaclarke]

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/cheetahs-kings-out-super-rugby

Cheetahs and Kings out

I think it may be good for South African Rugby

1. Springboks will have more experience of playing in European condition.
2. With European money, some existing Springboks and other South African players playing in Europe may be more willing to return to South Africa and play for the Cheetahs and Kings.

I think this is bad new for New Zealand as if the rest of the South African teams follow in the future Super Rugby will die and there isn't enough money to keep the All Black players in New Zealand without South African TV money.

 

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/cheetahs-kings-out-super-rugby

Cheetahs and Kings out

I think it may be good for South African Rugby

1. Springboks will have more experience of playing in European condition.
2. With European money, some existing Springboks and other South African players playing in Europe may be more willing to return to South Africa and play for the Cheetahs and Kings.

I think this is bad new for New Zealand as if the rest of the South African teams follow in the future Super Rugby will die and there isn't enough money to keep the All Black players in New Zealand without South African TV money.

No it won't. We will always measure ourselves with the All Blacks, so it will be pointless not to play against them not only internationally, but also in regard to Super Rugby.

There has been plenty of discussions about this in the past, and SA has made it perfectly clear that we won't abandon SANZAAR. We don't know what the Cheetahs and Kings will do for next season. Nothing has been set in stone, so they might not even play against European teams.

It would be great if whatever move is made, would attract stalwarts back to our shores, but whatever happens, we won't abandon our NZ counterparts... Maybe Australia, but never New Zealand.

 

[unrated]

I think what is happening now is probably the best possible situation we can be in.

We still have our four Super rugby sides that will play against the best of New Zealand and form the backbone of the Springboks. These sides will now have increased revenue as there are less teams eating from the Tv money pie. Sa playing in Super rugby is essential and we should never give that up.

Then we have the Cheetahs and Kings playing in Europe. Funded by a different set of tv money. They have the potential to become more profitable that the remaining sa super rugby sides. With these teams playing in Europe also it can be argued that it lessens the impact of our players playing in Europe for foreign clubs. So if a Cloete goes to Munster it might not be as bad as before since we have teams in the comp playing against a team such as Munster the selectors can now seriously consider these players for international duty.

The Cheetahs and Kings won't be able to afford to fill their team with foreign rugby talent . And then the Sa players playing for other clubs will almost ensure the selectors have about 3 teams worth of players to choose from just in European leagues. Combine that with our guys playing in Super rugby and I think things are looking very promising for the future from a rugby and financial perspective.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think what is happening now is probably the best possible situation we can be in.

We still have our four Super rugby sides that will play against the best of New Zealand and form the backbone of the Springboks. These sides will now have increased revenue as there are less teams eating from the Tv money pie. Sa playing in Super rugby is essential and we should never give that up.

Then we have the Cheetahs and Kings playing in Europe. Funded by a different set of tv money. They have the potential to become more profitable that the remaining sa super rugby sides. With these teams playing in Europe also it can be argued that it lessens the impact of our players playing in Europe for foreign clubs. So if a Cloete goes to Munster it might not be as bad as before since we have teams in the comp playing against a team such as Munster the selectors can now seriously consider these players for international duty.

The Cheetahs and Kings won't be able to afford to fill their team with foreign rugby talent . And then the Sa players playing for other clubs will almost ensure the selectors have about 3 teams worth of players to choose from just in European leagues. Combine that with our guys playing in Super rugby and I think things are looking very promising for the future from a rugby and financial perspective.

It's a blinder by the SARU as their negotiating position at club and international level is massively strengthened overnight by showing a willingness to shop around.

I disliked the decision to cut teams and thought it was shortsighted. One of the main aims, if not the main aim, was to make SA and Oz sides more competitive with their talent spread less thinly over a smaller number of sides. In one move the SARU have completely destroyed that argument as there will still be 6 SA sides, except now the fans of two of them won't be watching Super Rugby. If the Euro adventure is a financial success for SA then it may also jeopardise the future of the entire competition. Oops!

 

[mdaclarke]

I think it will actually increase the talent pool as I Springboks will be tempted back to South Africa as the Cheetahs and Kings will have european money,

 

[munstermuffin]

2 Points I wonder.

Do you think this massively benefits SARU now as they will get to see refs interpretations north and south etc. Financially it may be better than just having all in Super Rugby and for the national team it will be hugely beneficial in more depth and horses for courses.

Also do people think there may be trades like if Stormers had a guy more suited to Pro12/14 and Kings a guy that suits Super rugby style that they will swap etc.

 

[Brigantine]

I can't imagine the SR teams and Pro teams will be seen as equal for long.

Eventually you will either have a prestigious, elite SR competition with the Pro 14 being seen as a development competition for players who can't get SR contracts...

Or the other way around - moving from the Lions to the Cheetahs for more money will be seen as a promotion, the Springboks will be full of Cheetahs and Kings players, and SR will be a conference-focussed development competition, with the SA vs Aus games being more interesting than SA vs NZ.

What effect is any of this going to have on the Currie Cup?

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think the Cheetahs have been hard done by.
I'd rather see the Rebels given the push considering their performance.
The Cheetahs come from rugby country.
The Rebels are in VFL heartland.

 

[Nubiwan]

Wont be good for super rugby if all 4 NZ sides win their playoff matches. Quite frankly, I can see it happening. Many NZ players involved in a pretty extensive and gritty Lions tour, while the rest of super rugby shut down for a month,

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I think the Cheetahs have been hard done by.
I'd rather see the Rebels given the push considering their performance.
The Cheetahs come from rugby country.
The Rebels are in VFL heartland.

Melbourne's population is tipped to overtake Sydney within 10 years. People from Sydney are moving to Melbourne due to cheaper housing. Rugby registrations are up 30% on last year.

Yes the Rebels have had a bad year, they are ravaged by injury, crowds are down across the whole of the country including test matches.

It doesn't look great, but pulling out of Melbourne would be a really bad move by the ARU

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Would it really? I live in Melbourne and no one I talk to other than kiwis has any interest in rugby, it's fifth behind afl, cricket, league and football

Would it not be a better move to concentrate on the other areas where afl doesn't have quite the hold it does here and eventually mebournians might wonder what they're missing out on?