Scotland - South Africa

[TRF_Ezequiel]

On the 20th of november the Springboks will take on Scotland. This 3rd match of the Tour will be a good build-up to the clash with England a week later.

South Africa will miss Basson who is out with an injury and PdV has to seriously think what to do with the line-up. Murrayfield is the venue where South Africa beat Scotland 68-10 with a very young Percy Montgomery. Montgomery is kicking coach in the current squad. Another staff-member, Os du Randt, also played that day.

Willem Alberts hopefully will get another chance after a stunning performance against the Welsh team in Cardiff. I would love to see Alberts in the starting 15, as well as Alistair Hargreaves who has been outstanding this whole Currie Cup season. Also Lwazi Mvovo deserves a chance so Habana can take a break. With Scotland being the easiest game in this Tour (I think) Ryan Kankowski, Patrick Lambie and Francois Hougaard should get a start as well.

My preferred starting 15:

1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. CJ van der Linde
4. Alistair Hargreaves
5. Victor Matfield
6. Willem Alberts
7. Juan Smith
8. Ryan Kankowski
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn
11. Lwazi Mvovo
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Patrick Lambie
14. Gio Aplon
15. Francois Steyn


My expected starting 15 (Which PdV will prefer:


1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du Plessis
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Victor Matfield
6. Deon Stegmann
7. Juan Smith
8. Pierre Spies
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Zane Kirchner
14. Gio Aplon
15. Francois Steyn


Maybe LordHope can give us some thoughts about the Scottish side

 

[Seaton]

The game against New Zealand was a horror show.
The Scottish team played so badly that even the team that beat Ireland in 6 Nations would/should have thumped them, even though the team put out against New Zealand was pretty much the same.

The missed tackle count by the Scots doesn't seem that high, but in reality it was not high because players never even got close enough to the All Black players to even be in consideration for a missed tackle. The early miss for touch from a penalty set an example for the match, Scotland had their oppurtunities (sp.) but were very poor in execution. Unforced knock-ons, poor/wild passes, lateral movement on attack, poor decision making, selfishness, non-spreading on defence, too much spreading on defence, poor communication and the injury to captain Mike Blair in the first half proved to be the main culprits of the very, very poor performance.

Some of the New Zealanders believed the Scots were over-hyped in the media. I disagree, the consensus was not "We have a good chance of beating NZ", it was "With the wins over Argentina and Ireland, composing arguably our best form since 1999, this was the best chance we could have of beating NZ since that time"

For those who watched the Scots in the 6 Nations, I am sure most would say this performance was only a shadow of those, and the ones against Argentina. Regardless of the pressure NZ put on them.

So, with that little analysis over, I must say that it is far too early to consider a team for this match, as we still have 6/7 injuries from the last one, all of whom could recover in time

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have to admit that I have no idea what Scotland is bringing to the table or whom (I probably know only about 4 players and am not even sure if any of them are still playing; Nathan Hynes?)

If they play anywhere as badly against us as they did NZ we should walk this, even considering the amount of injuries we've got, with the only threats being ourselves; complacancy or bad game management/tactics which I wouldn't put past us.

I would like to see Alberts start and think giving Hougaard and Lambie chances wouldn't be a bad idea. Mvovo will probably play in Basson's place and I think he will do well. I would still play Habana though and if at all possible, give the man a try or put him at the back of a maul and have him score that way to get him past that most-tries record so that he can start focusing on the job at hand again. If that doesn't help, he is not the man to wear the no.11 jersey come RWC 2011.

The only measure of success for this game should be consistency; playing solid rugby for 80 minutes and finding our rhythm even if this isn't a 1st choice squad. If we could manage that I would be more happy with a close victory than a drubbing where we played haphazardly and didn't get any rhythm going into the Eng game.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

See, that's where you are making a very dangerous mistake. When Wales lost to Australia, we also thought we would have an easy day. Even the Welsh members here thought we would win without too much struggling. When the match started everything was different.

Never underestimate your opponent.

Having Alberts, Mvovo and Lambie in the starting line-up will give us more power (Alberts), speed (Mvovo) and determination (Lambie) than we had these last 2 weeks.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

See, that's where you are making a very dangerous mistake. When Wales lost to Australia, we also thought we would have an easy day. Even the Welsh members here thought we would win without too much struggling. When the match started everything was different.

Never underestimate your opponent.

Having Alberts, Mvovo and Lambie in the starting line-up will give us more power (Alberts), speed (Mvovo) and determination (Lambie) than we had these last 2 weeks.

Maybe I'm slow here but are you responding to me saying that the Bokke should, in all likelyhood, take this?.. and then agreeing that making changes to the previous line-ups is the way to go in any case?

 

[Seaton]

I think PdV will do well to give Elton Jantjies some game time, it would sure as hell go down well with the SARU rugby bosses.
However i doubt he would start, so for me, this is what I think the Bok team might look like (combination wise), considering the NZ result

Either Zane Kirchner or Frans Steyn at fullback, Steyn might play inside center (if JdV doesn't pull through), but most likely outside center.
Mvovo or Aplon to be on the bench, otherwise Habana out of the squad
Frans Steyn most likely to start at 13, with Adi Jacobs/Kirchner slotting in if JdV is not fit.
JdV to start if fit, Frans Steyn to fill in if not
Most likely Habana, but if not Mvovo
I reckon Lambie will start, hence the plentiful game-time against Wales
Pienaar to start, to add experience, but wouldn't be surprised if Houggard is named
Spies will probably get more game time, as he is coming into 'form' (more like less screw-ups than usual)
Juan Smith to start, experienced and not a lot of game-time this year.
Willem Alberts might well start with Scotland lacking a quality fetcher
Matfield has to start, his experience would be crucial in this line-up
Flip van de Merwe could well get some game time, but Bakkies needs some himself
Jannie has played a lot this year, might be CJ van de Linde's chance
Think Chilliboy will start (my PdV sense tells me that Matfield might not start, with 'Chilli' being named as Captain!)
Beast could well get game-time, or none at all, with CJ coming in.

On the bench...

Should Chilliboy start, Bismarck should be on the bench.
Can't see CJ not starting, so either Beast or Jannie on the bench (Coenie Oozthuizen can't cover both sides if i remember)
Either Flip van de Merwe or Allistair Hargreaves, Flip to replace Bakkies or Hargreaves to replace Matfield
Kanko could well make an appearance off the bench, shouldd Alberts start
Either Pienaar or Houggard
Elton Jantjies has to be on the bench I imagine, with possibly Pienaar doing kicking duties for this match, should Lambie go awry (sp.)
Either Kirchner or Adi Jacobs.


The subs woud be as follows

Experience players to come on if Scotland somehow stay in the game till the last quater.
Jantjies on for whoever is playing full-back, Lambie to go full-back, or inside center should JdV start
Flip for Bakkies, or Hargreaves for Matfield

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Maybe I'm slow here but are you responding to me saying that the Bokke should, in all likelyhood, take this?.. and then agreeing that making changes to the previous line-ups is the way to go in any case?

I am, but then again, I am not too sure about a victory. Scotland will do anything to bounce back from the 3-49 defeat against the All Blacks, the same way Wales wanted to bounce back from their defeat against the Aussies. It's always dangerous to play a team that has nothing to lose (which will be the second opponent in a row now for us).

 

[Seaton]

Breaking news


Chilliboy and Basson tested positive for a banned stimulants

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think PdV will do well to give Elton Jantjies some game time, it would sure as hell go down well with the SARU rugby bosses.
However i doubt he would start, so for me, this is what I think the Bok team might look like (combination wise), considering the NZ result

Either Zane Kirchner or Frans Steyn at fullback, Steyn might play inside center (if JdV doesn't pull through), but most likely outside center.
Mvovo or Aplon to be on the bench, otherwise Habana out of the squad
Frans Steyn most likely to start at 13, with Adi Jacobs/Kirchner slotting in if JdV is not fit.
JdV to start if fit, Frans Steyn to fill in if not
Most likely Habana, but if not Mvovo
I reckon Lambie will start, hence the plentiful game-time against Wales
Pienaar to start, to add experience, but wouldn't be surprised if Houggard is named
Spies will probably get more game time, as he is coming into 'form' (more like less screw-ups than usual)
Juan Smith to start, experienced and not a lot of game-time this year.
Willem Alberts might well start with Scotland lacking a quality fetcher
Matfield has to start, his experience would be crucial in this line-up
Flip van de Merwe could well get some game time, but Bakkies needs some himself
Jannie has played a lot this year, might be CJ van de Linde's chance
Think Chilliboy will start (my PdV sense tells me that Matfield might not start, with 'Chilli' being named as Captain!)
Beast could well get game-time, or none at all, with CJ coming in.

On the bench...

Should Chilliboy start, Bismarck should be on the bench.
Can't see CJ not starting, so either Beast or Jannie on the bench (Coenie Oozthuizen can't cover both sides if i remember)
Either Flip van de Merwe or Allistair Hargreaves, Flip to replace Bakkies or Hargreaves to replace Matfield
Kanko could well make an appearance off the bench, shouldd Alberts start
Either Pienaar or Houggard
Elton Jantjies has to be on the bench I imagine, with possibly Pienaar doing kicking duties for this match, should Lambie go awry (sp.)
Either Kirchner or Adi Jacobs.


The subs woud be as follows

Experience players to come on if Scotland somehow stay in the game till the last quater.
Jantjies on for whoever is playing full-back, Lambie to go full-back, or inside center should JdV start
Flip for Bakkies, or Hargreaves for Matfield

I agree with most of what you are saying here:

1)Habana needs to get a boot up his ass to get a wake-up call; while gifting you're opponents space being overeager is one thing, the greed he showed against Wales by running back in when the try was there for the taking outside by passing is quite another. This, combined with Basson's injury and the fact that Aplon has no boot whatsoever (he can't run back every ball in the conditions up North) I would like to see Mvovo and Aplon wing it with either Kirschner, Steyn or Lambie at FB. Lambie being my prefered choice but I guess he has decided to through his lot into playing at 10. If not I would have Jantjes on the bench covering M Steyn as well. I would start Steyn at 10, though.

2) Jannie has had a lot of rugby this year and could probably do with a break. It would also give Coenie Oostyhuizen a chance as it would probably be his last for the AI's as I would start Jannie again against England. Might be considered cotton-wooling him for the England game but I am not beyond that.

3) I would not be surprised at all to see Chiliboy start. Pity, as I see Strauss as a very able hooker and the best bet for a deputy to Bismarck. Guess Smit and Ralepelle have got their tickets already, though.

4) Alberts starting is an absolute must. Would be good to see Kanko play. I would love to see him and Hougaard together at 8/9. They should be able to keep the opposition guessing and honest and Hougaard gets his clearences away soo fast that any extra time would do wonders. Especially if JdV stops crash-balling every ball he gets and has a little time and space to work with.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Breaking news


Chilliboy and Basson tested positive for a banned stimulants

Serious? Holy shiat. Never thought I would hear of a Bok being charged with using stimulants. Don't they test for these things (Us before selecting them to be Springboks, Imean?). Just what we need right now; a scandal...

Well, I guess that gives Strauss the inside lane to cover for Bismarck at least. Pity about Basson.

 

[Tank94]

Hopefully the boks can bounce back from those two VERY close games against Wales & Ireland because really we should have ran away with those games.

I would have thought the humiliation in the Tri nations would have given thamselves some determination to prove themselves but so far its been pretty kak.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Hopefully the boks can bounce back from those two VERY close games against Wales & Ireland because really we should have ran away with those games.

I would have thought the humiliation in the Tri nations would have given thamselves some determination to prove themselves but so far its been pretty kak.

It has been pretty kak performances so far but what worries me isn't the scoreline being so close but the fact that we can't seem to play a game of rugby for more than 20 minutes. I agree with you that if the humiliation in the 3N wasn't enough to motivate these guys we are in for a bumpy ride to the RWC.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Kankowski at eight for Boks

16th November 2010 11:57

Ryan Kankowski: Starting at number eight


Springbok coach Peter de Villiers has resisted the temptation to make too many changes to his side that will do duty against Scotland on Saturday.

Zane Kirchner returns to the XV at full-back, with Gio Aplon moving to the wing in place of Bjorn Basson, who has returned to South Africa amidst doping allegations.

This means that Sharks winger Lwazi Mvovo comes onto the bench and he could well make his debut for the Springboks as a substitute.

The other change to the back-line sees Bulls scrum-half Francois Hougaard come in for Ruan Pienaar, who drops to the bench.

In the forwards, number eight Pierre Spies is the surprise omission as he drops out of the matchday 22 altogether.

Ryan Kankowski is handed a start at the back of the scrum and Willem Alberts retains his spot on the bench.

Chiliboy Ralepelle's return home with Basson opens up the door for Cheetahs hooker Andries Strauss, who has been named as a substitute.

"We've got a talented squad and a long tour like this gives us an opportunity to try out a few options," said De Villiers.

"Francois Hougaard played well for us in the Vodacom Tri-Nations and did well when he came on on Saturday and brings a different style.

"Ryan is one of two talented eighthmen in the squad and we wanted to give him an opportunity to show us what he can do."

South Africa: 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Gio Aplon , 13 Frans Steyn, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Ryan Kankowski, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Deon Stegmann, 5 Victor Matfield (capt), 4 Bakkies Botha, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira
Replacements: 16 Andries Strauss, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Willem Alberts, 20 Ruan Pienaar, 21 Lwazi Mvovo , 22 Patrick Lambie.

Source: Planetrugby.com
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_6511078,00.html
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Just a shame they talk about Andries Strauss when they mean Adriaan Strauss. Andries Strauss in an inside-center who played for the Natal Sharks this year and is Adriaan's cousin. I cannot believe Habana has yet another chance to start! How is that possible? For FCK sakes!!! Man o man.

 

[Jer1cho]

It's just been revealed the Habana will miss the rest of the tour with a broken hand. First Chilliboy, now Habana. I'm loving these blessings in disguise...

 

[nickdnz]

It's just been revealed the Habana will miss the rest of the tour with a broken hand. First Chilliboy, now Habana. I'm loving these blessings in disguise...

:yess:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Will they call up a replacement, seeing as that's two wingers they've lost in two days?

 

[Christo Naude]

South African Rugby camp all trying to get PDV FIRED!

The South African back room staff are all trying to get Pieter de Villiers out! With some clear examples and motives as ill explain now.

Gary Gold(forwards) Dick Muir(backs) Percy Montgomery(Kicking) and Craig Roberts(medic). These are the guys that i say are stabbing PDV in the back. All except Craig Roberts think they should be head coach.

Lets start of with Gary Gold, few people know this but hes also the defense coach of the Boks. There defense pattern is crap leaving clear gaps at the edges, and its not as if he doesn't know what to do(having helped Jake at the world cup). Clearly hes helping us lose to get the top job.

Dick Muir
Selecting Zane at outside center what! And clearly not getting anything right at the back. Cant remember a good looking Bok back line this year. Did he have the same problem at the Sharks when he was coach there NO! Clearly wanting the boks to loose to get the top job

Percy Montgomery
He played over 5 years in Wales. Got all the experience that you'll ever need for wales conditions, So then how could he not have alerted the bok back line that there studs are too short for the conditions. Don't tell me he didn't think of that. I can't believe a senior guy like that can miss it. He clearly wants to become Boks back line coach and will not help till he gets it.

Craig Roberts
How can you as team doctor allow your players to take baned substances that you prescribed. You are supposed to do your home work and make sure that it never happens that your players take a baned substance by mistake. Thats why you are team doctor!!!!!!!! If i was PDV i would have sent him home (Craig Roberts) till i finished my investigation. Its a woeful mistake and is unforgivable.

Clearly all of them have got the knife in for Pieter de Villiers. And they all should be replaced with International coaches that know they wont become Springbok coach and have no aspirations to become the head coach.:%#%#:

 

[Christo Naude]

:bravo:Bring on MVOVO great that hes going to get a chance

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Jericho, are you joking?

JP Pietersen is already out with an injury. Who should they call up? Ndungane? Van den Heever? JJ Engelbrecht?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

INJURED HABANA OUT AS BOKS CHANGE FIVE FOR SCOTS
Posted: 16 November 2010


Bryan Habana was forced out of the Springbok tour of Britain and Ireland on Tuesday because of a hand injury.

Habana fractured a bone in his left hand during morning practice and will return to South Africa shortly. His place in Saturday's team is taken by Lwazi Mvovo – who is promoted from the bench – while the experienced Adi Jacobs joins the replacements.

Habana suffered the injury during a defensive drill when he fell awkwardly on his hand after tackling Morne Steyn. The injury reduces the tour squad to 27 players. An announcement on replacements will be issued in due course.

Apart from the change at left wing, Bok coach Peter de Villiers on Tuesday made three changes to the Springbok starting XV and one positional switch for Saturday's Test against Scotland at Murrayfield in Edinburgh.

Zane Kirchner, Francois Hougaard and Ryan Kankowski were all promoted to the starting line up while Gio Aplon moves from fullback to wing from the team that defeated Wales 29-25 in Cardiff on Saturday.

In addition hooker Adriaan Strauss and Mvovo are involved in a match-day 22 for the first time on tour, with Strauss included on the bench.

Bjorn Basson's injury and subsequent suspension made him unavailable for the right wing position and his place is taken by Gio Aplon, who moves from fullback. Aplon's No 15 jersey is taken by Zane Kirchner who moves up from the bench.

Francois Hougaard is given the starting position at scrumhalf after his cameo performance from the bench on Saturday, while Ryan Kankowski comes straight into the starting XV at eighthman.

"We've got a talented squad and a long tour like this gives us an opportunity to try out a few options," said Peter de Villiers.

"Francois Hougaard played well for us in the Vodacom Tri-Nations and did well when he came on on Saturday and brings a different style.

"Ryan is one of two talented eighthmen in the squad and we wanted to give him an opportunity to show us what he can do."

The changes on the bench are caused by the departures of Basson and Chiliboy Ralepelle, who returned a positive test for a banned stimulant following the Test against Ireland on November 6.

De Villiers added that the squad had now put the shock of the positive results behind them.

"There is a process in place in these cases and that is now being followed. As a squad we have moved on and are focusing only on Scotland."

South Africa v Scotland

Murrayfield, Edinburgh, November 20 2010


15 Zane Kirchner
14 Gio Aplon
13 Frans Steyn
12 Jean de Villiers
11 Lwazi Mvovo
10 Morne Steyn
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Ryan Kankowski
7 Juan Smith
6 Deon Stegmann
5 Victor Matfield (captain)
4 Bakkies Botha
3 Jannie du Plessis
2 Bismarck du Plessis
1 Tendai Mtawarira
REPLACEMENTS
16 Adriaan Strauss
17 CJ van der Linde
18 Flip van der Merwe
19 Willem Alberts
20 Ruan Pienaar
21 Patrick Lambie
22 Adi Jacobs

Source: sarugby.co.za
http://www.sarugby.co.za/newsarticl...atid=&piccat=&statscatid=&statsteam=&newscat=
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Mvovo starting, Habana out, Jacobs on the bench.