Scrum question

[ncurd]

Health and safety had nothing to do with the hit being removed the scrum was a complete mess and a lottery.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...th-about-the-scrum-it-is-a-complete-mess.html

The real question is have the new laws decreased or increased completed scrums....from my perspective they have but I can't find a single statistic to verify that, if someone can point in the right direction beyond watching every scrum in the latest 6 nations I'll happily do so.

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According to this article the change didn't make much difference

http://www.sportal.co.nz/rugby/six-nations/six-nations-statistics-reveal-scrum-still-an-issue/166kzfxn1jtnu198sryc04aigv

however it doesn't give much on the actual numbers.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's the IRB's own fault for the mess in the scrums. Go back to the hit. If they are worried about the players safety, then let the props and hookers all wear scrum caps.

NO!!

The hit shouldn't be brought back!

 

[ncurd]

Brian Moore wrote an excellent article 2 years back on why the hit was a problem. He also helped decide the new laws on engagement, binding, putting in etc. The issue now is less to do with the laws and the fact teams play for penalties. Until that stops any change to the general laws won't make any significant difference.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21952652

 

[MotherRucker1]

The stopping the clock idea would at least ensure a team behind on the score board with 10 or 20 to go isn't disadvantaged by 7 minutes of continuous scrum collapses. I have quite a cynical view on it. Yes it isn't easy to keep a scrum upright when you have that much weight and pressure slamming into you, but it's just funny how the referee sometimes warns teams the a penalty will be blown next to it goes down and then it magically manages to stay up.

Props know what they're doing, and they're taking the mick. Just like halfbacks when they dork around waiting to feed, and an opportunity to get it over with surpasses. Just put it in.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Anyone think we should have a 5 second 'use it' call for when scrums don't move?

Because I'm telling you, the most frustrating thing for me is when you've got a perfectly stable scrum which could be a great playing platform - but the team in question keeps the ball in the scrum for an age, hoping to eventually get a nudge on. Then, the scrum goes down, and has to be reset.

THIS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED! If it ain't moving, then just like in driving mauls, it can't stay there forever. When the scrum isn't moving for a certain elapsed time, that's where referees need to remember that the scrum is a mechanism for getting play going again - and tell the team to use or lose it.

In short, teams which ruin playable ball in the hope of getting a scrum penalty which isn't happening, should be penalised to some extent.

 

[ncurd]

The stopping the clock idea would at least ensure a team behind on the score board with 10 or 20 to go isn't disadvantaged by 7 minutes of continuous scrum collapses. I have quite a cynical view on it. Yes it isn't easy to keep a scrum upright when you have that much weight and pressure slamming into you, but it's just funny how the referee sometimes warns teams the a penalty will be blown next to it goes down and then it magically manages to stay up.

Props know what they're doing, and they're taking the mick. Just like halfbacks when they dork around waiting to feed, and an opportunity to get it over with surpasses. Just put it in.

Aye it's why I said no yellow cards for a scrum going backwards collapsing/standing up as eventually it becomes impossible not to. If they collapsing before the ball is being put in, on engagement or going forwards they should totally be penalised.

However I've noticed in the Premiership the key problem is the dominant scrum will just keep pushing until the referee blows. Very rarely in an attacking position will you see a ball come out of a dominant scrum and given to the backs. Sadly they are set up for great attacking plays usually but never get to try to do them unless the scrum goes wrong for the attacking team. I know Healey is an annoying git but he is right to bemoan it week in week out he's asked to analyse the potential attacking play but he's right inevtibly all we get to do is watch some guy push other guys to induce a penalty.

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Anyone think we should have a 5 second 'use it' call for when scrums don't move?

Because I'm telling you, the most frustrating thing for me is when you've got a perfectly stable scrum which could be a great playing platform - but the team in question keeps the ball in the scrum for an age, hoping to eventually get a nudge on. Then, the scrum goes down, and has to be reset.

THIS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED! If it ain't moving, then just like in driving mauls, it can't stay there forever. When the scrum isn't moving for a certain elapsed time, that's where referees need to remember that the scrum is a mechanism for getting play going again - and tell the team to use or lose it.

In short, teams which ruin playable ball in the hope of getting a scrum penalty which isn't happening, should be penalised to some extent.

Agreed it's bloody annoying.

 

[MotherRucker1]

Almost anything that speeds the game up will be something I'm in favor of, so I agree Henry. Just another example of teams taking liberty for the right time to strike, and it's completely and utterly not their decision to make.

Side note which is a bit off topic and not to do with scrums: Regarding the 'use it or lose it' rule .. this past weekend in Super rugby was the first time I've actually seen a team (the Warratahs from memory) lose it. Plenty of times a team is told to use it, and they'll be cheeky and ignore the call for a few seconds. Anyway, took 3 calls of 'use it' from Piper to enforce a scrum I believe. So that was interesting. Hope it won't be a precedent because imo that's too much leeway.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i actually wonder if the ref shouldn't put the ball in...like a tip off in basketball, there isn't supposed to be a benefit in putting the ball in as it should be straight....defending halfback has to stand opposite the ref and attack directly behind the scrum, gives them the option for shoot it straight out the back...