Sexism?

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Dave Davies, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Senior Member

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    (Warning - LONG)
    Good evening, friends,

    Question for y’all. As an American, it seems obvious that Europe is way ahead of us in terms of progressive ideas, acceptance of diversity, and so on.

    When I listen to European and Southern Hemisphere podcasts about rugby, they typically just switch between coverage of the mens’ game and the womens’ game. Nobody bats an eye, and nobody does the shitty, “Wow, as a girl athlete, what kind of man do you hope to marry?” which is the go-to question over here in our nightmare dumpster fire of a “society.”

    However, I pay lots of money to access rugby games that simply don’t get televised over here. And uet, NO women’s games are available. Occasionally there are 7’s Women’s matches, but pretty much only if it’s a final of a tournament.

    Of course, in the US, nobody (except me, it seems) gives a crap about rugby, and everyone cares about “football”. There is no Women’s Football. Every 2 or 3 years there are articles about, “This girl can ACTUALLY play the role of punter on this backwoods high school football team, isn’t that amazing?” But then that’s it. No follow up. Whatever “girl” they’re highlighting inevitably disappears within days of that news cycle.

    I guess my question is, is gender bias in pro sports going away? Or at least, in the parts of the world that don’t use murdering former KGB dictator for life politicians to win their worthless incompetent orange-faced morons to become president? Not that I’m biased, obviously.

    Long story short- if the NFL was a European league, would there have been a news story this year celebrating the fact that the female football players are finally getting pro contracts, like with rugby?

    Asking for a friend lol
     
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  3. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    Alot of money has been put into womens rugby at prem level and internation levels. The mens senior, under 20s and Womens six nations are all televised i believe. And the womens game is getting alot stronger and much better to watch. Its really great to see just as it is with female refs. Its just been made more inclusive.

    No the women wont get asked who they want to marry as to us they are respected as much as the men these days. They will get asked genuin rugby questions same as the men. I dont follow the womens game at prem level i must admit but i do respect them and the games ive watched i have been impressed with.
     
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  4. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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  5. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    Come on DD, surely you are doing your nation a disservice by overlooking the female equivalent of the NFL, the Lingerie League!?

    Pioneers in gender equality! :D
     
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  6. living sacrifice

    living sacrifice Senior Member

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    I know no one really says this openly but woman's rugby and a lot of sport in general is just lower quality at the moment. Watching the game is like watching a national league or lower game over here. Until the entertainment value increases (and their skills/ fitness etc.) do then i can't see it being a bigger deal.

    If you watch your premiership team and international one, do you have time or want to watch a woman's league? I also go and watch my local club as well. If they had a mixed side, that would be interesting lol
     
  7. scotty507

    scotty507 Senior Member

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    Mixed side? I dont think that would happen, im not saying men are better at rugby than women but if you look at most sporting event in the olympics mens world records and average times are higher. It would be hard to make the womens league to the same standard as the mens but money has been piled in to make it reach its potential and beyond. As i said before i do enjoy watchong it and there is enterainment value no doubt but i dont have chance to watch it is normally the problem. I dont know how much of it is actually televised. Regardless of any of this im happy they are been given the same oppertunities( in the early stages of growth atm) but having more amd more full time contracts, six nations at the same time as the mens and televised. Its deffinatly big strides in the right direction.
     
  8. Hanley!

    Hanley! Senior Member

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    I'll often find a women's game more entertaining than a men's game on a given weekend. Maybe because there's sometimes more "running rugby" due to the defensive systems being inferior. The skills might not be on the same level as the men's game, but that doesn't mean the games are less fun to watch.

    It's always going to be a slow process to be honest, because the sport isn't going to be as attractive to elite female athletes as it is to male athletes because the female game isn't currently viable as a career. Two thirds of rugby fans are also male rather than female. So for both these reasons the men are drawing from a larger pool of prospective talent and will as a result find more quality players. The resources for training and coaching the female players will also be inferior due to the lack of funds and that has an impact on their skills/fitness also. The inferior skills/fitness of the woman's game can then be used as an excuse to cover it less, but it's a circular argument. If they were covered more, there would be more funding, and if there were more funding the performances would be of higher quality.

    I think it will begin to change over time, but it won't happen soon. There does appear to be an opportunity there with rugby in particular, as it seems to have a higher percentage of female fans than most team sports.
     
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  9. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Senior Member

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    Ha! Well played, my friend. Somehow, I never remember who actually wins those games... ;)
     
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  10. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Senior Member

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    Fair point. I do have almost too much rugby to watch already (it's gonna be nutty once Super Rugby starts), so I have to honestly doubt I would watch much... I'm sure I'd watch playoffs, especially a final match, that is almost always exciting no matter what the sport. The WNBA playoffs are pretty great, for instance. And men's sports I don't care about, like hockey, are INCREDIBLY exciting once you get to the Stanley Cup Finals. And there are some women's sports I prefer, like tennis - I still love the men's game, but the women tend to have a lot more back-and-forth, producing longer points and, to me, more chances for amazing individual plays. :)
     
  11. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 Senior Member

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    America have actually had much more success in women's rugby than in mens, having won the inaugural women's world cup coming second twice and never failing to qualify for it.

    In terms of mixed sides it's pretty much never going to happen at professional level. There's a reason testosterone is used as a PED and men obviously produce far more of it than women. It does happen at mini's level at least in Ireland as there's usually not enough girls at one age group to form a women's team and puberty hasn't made it unfair.

    The only time I've seen mixing at an adult level was when I played in Canada there was one woman who played with the men's teams because she was too good for the women's team as she was a Canadian international in rugby and gridiron. She was very good but even with the rugby being of not a great standard in terms of skill and tactics (it was a university team, where most guys had only played the sport 3 or four years at most) she was still not a guaranteed starter for the A team.

    In terms of professionalism for the women's game solely there's been some positive steps forward in some countries but some knocks back as well, like the IRFU trying to get rid of professional contracts in a world cup year. I think ultimately it's always going to struggle in comparison to the mens game because it's ultimately not as good a product. The quality isn't as high which means viewership is lower decreasing the amount of money to pay players. There's only so much time most people will spend watching rugby and something has to lose out. It also doesn't help when they do things like schedule the opening 6N game to kick off on a Friday at 5 o'clock. One thing I think they could do is target the crowd who give out about modern rugby and want it to be like the old days because that's what modern women's rugby reminds me of. The game is much less structured and players seem to have more opportunity to try and make something happen.
     
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  12. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Not to sound like a dick but every women's sports that isn't 1) Tennis, 2) In the olympics will struggle compared to the Male equivalent.

    7's is the easiest and cheapest way to expand it as a sport, as the competitions run hand in hand with the mens.
    The XV's sport however I don't see it becoming big for a long long time.

    I like the womens hockey though the Canadian women's hockey league is doing a great job in expanding it's league IMO. (Also Hilary Knight FTW!!), Personally I think they should merge with the National Women's Hockey League as well.


    The thing is most people don't want to pump money into something that isn't financially viable and Women's team sport on the whole isn't viable, Look how hard it's been to get a proper Rugby in america!

    Football which is massive in this country, it's most successful women's team Arsenal has a capacity of 4,500 and it doesn't sell out. Which is on par with Male teams playing in tier 7 and 8.
     
  13. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    I saw an ad on the superbowl, about this female football player Toni Harris trying to be the first female in the NFL at FS, and looking at her highlights she just isn't going to be anywhere near NFL level.
     
  14. Da Grappla

    Da Grappla Senior Member

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    There's no money in the world to pay me for watching any women sport with the exception of gymnastics
     
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  15. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    I actually prefer womens 7s to the mens because of the greater variety caused by the willingness to kick (at least at the Rio Olympics).

    Justine Henin is the second most entertaining tennis player I've ever seen, and the female BDO darts champion from Japan had a three dart average over 90 (better than plenty men) but generally I agree with the point about women's sport sometimes lacking the intensity and therefore entertainment. Give it 100 years of social progress and that may change a fair bit.
     
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  16. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Senior Member

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    I doubt you'll have to worry much about that.
     
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  17. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Senior Member

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    ...And the first? For me, Steffi Graf all the way, but even she couldn't have won much against Serena, I'd bet.
     
  18. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    Federer for me. I did like Graf's sublime backhand slice. Its all about the variety of shot for me, and both sexes in tennis dont have enough of it currently in my opinion.
     
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  19. profitius

    profitius Senior Member

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    I'll say it. You could get a team of 12 year old boys that would beat the women's rugby team.


    A few years back there was the famous example of the Australian women's soccer team taking on a local U15 boys team. The boys won 7-0. That Australian womens team were ranked second in the world.
     
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