Should drugs be legalised?

[dullonien]

Canadian Rugger, that's an appalling story you told there and my thoughts go out to you and your girl friend. No-one should ever have to experience such dreadful things. But the people who did this are the ones in the wrong, they are twisted people who don't deserve to live. At the end of the day, these kind of people would do what they do no matter if drugs were illegal or legal, these kind of people would find a way to carry on their disgusting behaviour even if drugs didn't exist (though drugs do make their acts easier).

I do understand your reasons for disliking drugs.

St Helens, I now understand your reasons for not wanting drugs legalised (they are obviously perfectly correct), but earlier in the thread you didn't try and include any reasoning behind the insulting comments you were dishing out.

Carry on with the great work you are doing in your community. I personally think kids need to be educated about drugs (in the way you are doing), so when it comes to a time in their lives where they need to decide whither they want to 'risk it', they can make an educated decision, (hopefully coming to the correct decision) that drugs are bad, and no thanks I don't wanna take that e pill etc.

Another thing that needs to be sorted out is the whole buisness of 'peer pressure'. It is afterall the reason most teenagers start smoking tobbacco/cannabis and taking some recreational drugs. I never felt this way (a friend isn't really your friend if they force you to do something). I started smoking because I got curious (and stupid), and I enjoyed the first few I tried, same with weed. But I never tried any harder drugs (shrooms being the odd one out), even though alot of my mates in uni were taking mdma etc. before night out.

As I've said before, I am against the legalising of drugs. From my experiences of being able to buy magic shrooms from a shop legally, this hugely affected my judgment. I thought because they were legal to sell in a normal shop on the high street, they can't be that strong, or dangerous. But I was wrong, and I'm glad their classification has been changed, making them illegal, full stop.

 

[danny]

personally I think coke and weed should be de-criminalised (hash pretty much is). The key to enjoying the occasional dalliance is to know whats in your gear. Its a bit like shopping for the best produce. Know your stuff and you will have a good time. Buy crap off some nasty little herbert you dont know and you are asking for trouble.
I know I will be abused for my views but the reason people take certain substances is because its fun and makes you feel good. Enjoy responsibly and dont do it too often. Its all about personal choice.

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 23 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

personally I think coke and weed should be de-criminalised (hash pretty much is). The key to enjoying the occasional dalliance is to know whats in your gear. Its a bit like shopping for the best produce. Know your stuff and you will have a good time. Buy crap off some nasty little herbert you dont know and you are asking for trouble.
I know I will be abused for my views but the reason people take certain substances is because its fun and makes you feel good. Enjoy responsibly and dont do it too often. Its all about personal choice.[/b]

Ahem, I'm not really gonna bother. But when coke etc. is concerened, I don't think you can trust anyone, you aren't guaranteed to get 'the good stuff' just because you ask for it. Everyone involved in the productionl, cutting of it etc. are all criminals, trying to make as much money as they can for the least amount of work, as quickly as they can so they can retire without getting busted.

imo you are takign a risk of getting some sh*t that's been cut with rat poison etc. every time you do the stuff. It really isn't worth it.

 

[danny]

I very rarely take anything illegal but when the mood takes me I go to someone who I can trust.
I have a couple of bad experiences in my younger days with acid so Im now very carefull.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

I need to get this board an "ignore" feature, I really do.

 

[danny]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I need to get this board an "ignore" feature, I really do.[/b]

More unhelpfull and uninteresting posting from St Helens. You are really living up to the ignorant Northerner stereotype.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

And you're just confirming what the whole board has known for some while - that you're a homophobic, racist bonehead.

 

[Laetca]

Glad to know I'm not the only one annoyed by that signature.

One of the arguments for legalising hard drugs is so that the available drugs would be more pure. Just wondering, what is the benefit of this? Is the experience better, is the chance you overdose smaller (would think it the other way around but still), ...?

It was said earlier that despite education kids are still going to try drugs if they're offered any. I think that if you educate your child properly they will know better than just taking drugs simply because the other kids are doing the same. I'm not talking about anyone trying drugs out of curiosity though.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

The major problem with drugs is they destabilize things. I can completely understand your point Danny how you feel that you can goto a trusted source, do your thing, you have a bit of fun and nobody gets hurt. But the fact is the majority of the people do not want drugs decriminalized or legalized because they see the average drug using joe as someone who quickly becomes not just a user but an abuser.

Legalizing drugs from an economic and Hobbesian security standpoint makes no sense. Lets take Matt Stevens for instance. He is being paid big money to do what he does, people have invested enormous amounts of time to see that he performs to the best of his ability. As an elite athlete he has a contractual obligation to ensure that his body is performing to the best of its ability. Doing cocaine will not give him that and it will degrade his performance gradually.

The same thing goes for anyone... myself being a military man... if I start doing cocaine and become dependent I will lose my effectiveness as a soldier and will not be able to do my job. The point I am trying to make is a great deal of money is being invested in people only to have a handful fo them get wasted because they become dependent on a substance.

The same thing can be said of Alcohol which I also think is a chronic problem in terms of bige drinking and alcoholism. A person who becomes hooked become a burden on society. And it may not cause problems such as depression, etc but it definitely exacerbates them. In the wrong hands it can be used for the most devastating things imaginable.

AN example of this is the use of cocaine on child soldiers in Africa... they feed them the drugs, get them dependent on them, and in the process these children will do anything for a little high. Its sickening and brutal. The atrocities committed by these children are sometimes improbable. A Sergeant of mine who had done a tour in Sierra Leone told me about kids who would be all drugged up, they would shoot their enemies and while they were still alive they would cut their hearts out and drink their blood.

The point I am trying to make is that for the number of benefits that they give our society, their are an equal or greater number of disadvantages associated with them. It is for this reason that I feel drugs must never be allowed to be distributed freely within our society.

This is quite a hot topic and I really enjoyed reading what some people have to say, from both sides of the argument

 

[Nidhogg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laetca @ Jan 22 2009, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Or let's try the Dutch model, The Netherlands are at the moment considering diminishing the number of coffee shops where you can legally buy and use weed, because of all the trouble they bring (which consists mostly of tourists travelling especially there to buy some.)[/b]

In Brabant and Maastricht they are closing coffeeshops because of the problems with drug tourists from Belgium, France and Germany, they are also considering moving coffeeshops to the border make sure those idiots stop trashing the cities and villages. It's a problem that's being created by the countries around us where weed is illegal, the locals aren't causing the problems.

In Amsterdam, coffeeshops are being closed because of a ridiculous rule that they can't be within 200 meters of a high school. Most schools have already said it won't matter, and is a useless rule, but the government thinks it's the right thing to do. In Amsterdam, the municipality has already said it wants to further legalize marijuana, and that coffeeshops cause no more disturbance than bars, clubs, etc (often much less).

The point is that our coffeeshop system works just fine, so good that there is more and more support for further legalization. Just because we keep getting swamped by drug tourists from other European countries doesn't mean that the system doesn't work within the country. In a setting where there are mostly dutch people, coffeeshops are the most chilled out establishments around. The better solution would be to have legalized marijuana in other European countries as well, though that would be a blow to our tourism sector.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Niddhog, reading your posts, I'm with St Helens, it reads as 'can't be all that bad', why else would you want to try it?[/b]

I don't quite understand what you mean? What would I want to try? Where did I say it "isn't all that bad"??

 

[St Helens RLFC]

It says to me that it looks like you revere the use of drugs - and others agree with me. Whether that's the case or not, I don't know.

 

[Nidhogg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 01:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

In my opinion, there is NO valid reason for the legalisation of drugs. He make his points as well as he likes, I am totally opposed to his view and will not consider it. I have seen drugs ruin and continue to ruin way too many peoples lives. And, to boot, he is an arrogant, sneering condescending, jumped up little child.[/b]

I don't get it. Every study available indicates that there are less drug users in the Netherlands in every category, from soft to hard drugs, compared to countries that have complete prohibition (except for the crazy Scandinavians, then again they drink insane amounts of hard alcohol and live in snow country). How can you say that you feel drugs ruin too many lives, and then go around to support the system that results in the most drug users?

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Because I live in England, not Holland! There's a massive, massive culture difference between the two. I support no system - they're illegal and should stay illegal.

 

[Fred187]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danny @ Jan 24 2009, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I need to get this board an "ignore" feature, I really do.[/b]

More unhelpfull and uninteresting posting from St Helens. You are really living up to the ignorant Northerner stereotype.
[/b][/quote]

Well, you can f*** right off! I was neutral before now, but that comment has put me right on St Helen's side!

Although, I still pose the question: why should the government (or anybody else, for that matter) have the right to tell us what we can and can't do to our own bodies? I'm not an advocate for any kind of drug use, but I think the above question still needs to be asked...

 

[St Helens RLFC]

By backing up a Saints fan, you do realise that you've just opened up a hole in the time space continuum over Billinge, don't you?

 

[Nidhogg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Because I live in England, not Holland! There's a massive, massive culture difference between the two. I support no system - they're illegal and should stay illegal.[/b]

How would the cultural difference effect decriminalized marijuana?

Look, I'm not saying it will be instant succes, but it just has so much advantages in the long run. If drugs are taxed, distributed through controlled channels, and not sold by crooks in an alleyway, it helps pull drug users out of the criminal circuit. The tax money made on the drugs could be used to fund community projects like yours, fund the school system, and have classes that educate children about drugs, alcohol, sex, et cetera.

From all that I have seen thusfar, telling people they can't do something just DOES NOT WORK. Warning them of the dangers and being honest and open about things takes away a lot of the ammunition a lot of troubled teens draw on. It's the Ghandi principle, don't fight back but hug those who want to harm you, and in the end you will prevail.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It says to me that it looks like you revere the use of drugs - and others agree with me. Whether that's the case or not, I don't know.[/b]

I feel I need to clear something up here, I would personally never use hard drugs, I smoke a few joints every year and that's it. I don't revere drug use, and I feel sorry for everyone who is an addict. I'm not pro-drugs, I'm pro-choice and anti-crime.

 

[danny]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

And you're just confirming what the whole board has known for some while - that you're a homophobic, racist bonehead.[/b]

Thats very hurtfull. I thought everyone on this board thought I was a kind, thoughtfull and open minded individual. As for Fred I dont want to argue with you, now we are such good mates.

 

[Nidhogg]

Isn't every rugby player a bit gay? I mean, fooling around with 29 other guys on a muddy field in tight shorts?

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nidhogg @ Jan 23 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because I live in England, not Holland! There's a massive, massive culture difference between the two. I support no system - they're illegal and should stay illegal.[/b]

How would the cultural difference effect decriminalized marijuana?

Look, I'm not saying it will be instant succes, but it just has so much advantages in the long run. If drugs are taxed, distributed through controlled channels, and not sold by crooks in an alleyway, it helps pull drug users out of the criminal circuit. [/b][/quote]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

If it were legal and heavily, the maqjority would still get it from illegal sources as to avoid the heavy tax leavy UK governments (I.E. Labourr) traditionally put on absoloutely ANYTHING recriational. The black market would infact get a boost as there would be nothing to punish those who carry it in the streets so the deterrant element for dealers would go down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The tax money made on the drugs could be used to fund community projects like yours, fund the school system, and have classes that educate children about drugs, alcohol, sex, et cetera.[/b]

It could, but Mr. Brown wants a new Jag and a Holiday this year. I don't see speed camera revinue going to fund extra police. Or tobacco taxes going into the NHS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

From all that I have seen thusfar, telling people they can't do something just DOES NOT WORK. Warning them of the dangers and being honest and open about things takes away a lot of the ammunition a lot of troubled teens draw on. It's the Ghandi principle, don't fight back but hug those who want to harm you, and in the end you will prevail.[/b]

Ghandi's dead. Not though natural causes.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jan 24 2009, 05:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nidhogg @ Jan 23 2009, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Jan 23 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because I live in England, not Holland! There's a massive, massive culture difference between the two. I support no system - they're illegal and should stay illegal.[/b]

How would the cultural difference effect decriminalized marijuana?

Look, I'm not saying it will be instant succes, but it just has so much advantages in the long run. If drugs are taxed, distributed through controlled channels, and not sold by crooks in an alleyway, it helps pull drug users out of the criminal circuit. [/b][/quote]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

If it were legal and heavily, the maqjority would still get it from illegal sources as to avoid the heavy tax leavy UK governments (I.E. Labourr) traditionally put on absoloutely ANYTHING recriational. The black market would infact get a boost as there would be nothing to punish those who carry it in the streets so the deterrant element for dealers would go down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The tax money made on the drugs could be used to fund community projects like yours, fund the school system, and have classes that educate children about drugs, alcohol, sex, et cetera.[/b]

It could, but Mr. Brown wants a new Jag and a Holiday this year. I don't see speed camera revinue going to fund extra police. Or tobacco taxes going into the NHS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

From all that I have seen thusfar, telling people they can't do something just DOES NOT WORK. Warning them of the dangers and being honest and open about things takes away a lot of the ammunition a lot of troubled teens draw on. It's the Ghandi principle, don't fight back but hug those who want to harm you, and in the end you will prevail.[/b]

Ghandi's dead. Not though natural causes.
[/b][/quote]

touché salesman