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South Africa director of rugby Rassie Erasmus to face misconduct hearing

TRF_Olyy

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TRF_Olyy

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The only surprise is that it took this long to announce
They were probably loving the extra media it gave the 2nd test, so dragged their heels a bit
 

The_Blindside

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Its Over GIF
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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If what he did is considered misconduct let's close the shop. Poor taste, sure, i can understand, but what, exactly, did he say that was a verifiable lie? He basically questioned interpretations and inconsistencies 90% of the forum members question too, every single week.
Get me the video, exact time, and tell me, this thing which he presented as a fact is a lie. Be specific. You wont find many (in a 40 min video) because of how he presented it. He asked questions. He should be entitled to do so.


Every time i watch a rugby game (most tier 1, premier, top 14, SR, currie cup, pro14, like most here) i have very similar questions to the ones he presented and i am tired of not getting answers. I guarantee you I am not alone here. That is why a lot of people are behind him.
Shutting his arguments based on the form does not address the substance, which is kind of the main issue here.
 

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Presumably because there's official channels to raise things like this in rather than going public

Plus there was the implication that Berry was racist, which has led to him getting an absolute ton of abuse on social media
 

Ragey Erasmus

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If what he did is considered misconduct let's close the shop. Poor taste, sure, i can understand, but what, exactly, did he say that was a verifiable lie? He basically questioned interpretations and inconsistencies 90% of the forum members question too, every single week.
Get me the video, exact time, and tell me, this thing which he presented as a fact is a lie. Be specific. You wont find many (in a 40 min video) because of how he presented it. He asked questions. He should be entitled to do so.


Every time i watch a rugby game (most tier 1, premier, top 14, SR, currie cup, pro14, like most here) i have very similar questions to the ones he presented and i am tired of not getting answers. I guarantee you I am not alone here. That is why a lot of people are behind him.
Shutting his arguments based on the form does not address the substance, which is kind of the main issue here.
It's not about whether he lied or not, it's about the fact he felt it's ok to rant for an hour on social media when there are proper channels to go through and appears to continue to do so even after the 2nd game. This is unprofessional and makes a mockery of the official channels. It also sets a bad precedent, do we really want it to be established that a coach can do this with no consequence? Coaches in all internationals and maybe even club level will then use social media to pile pressure on refs, rile up fans and lead to personal abuse. The whole thing is unacceptable.

Yes fans do it, the difference is fans are not beholden to or representing the team. Players, officials and coaching staff have a duty to act in a certain manner and Rassie has been openly holding that all in contempt.

The annoying thing is people acting like bad reffing decisions are new. No, rugby is fundamentally a difficult game to referee. I'd be surprised if we could ever get to a standard much beyond what we have now. Look at old clips and you will see players getting away with **** all the time, far more regularly than they do now. His whinging solves nothing, there is very little that can be done. Blatant bias is something that can be addressed but general inconsistencies are part and parcel of the game. The Lions could also put together 1 hour of footage of decisions that went against them, what purpose would it serve?

As an example: Raynal restarting the game during an HIA replacement in the England vs Wales game so England had a player off the pitch who shouldn't have been is a perfectly legitimate thing to challenge. Time is off so the ref is in full control and with no reason he restarted at a time that was blatantly wrong. That's not a spur of the moment issue, missing something or having a slightly longer advantage, it is an out and out act of either incompetence or bias. There is zero excuse in that case. Many decisions during a game are not clear cut and you could have a bunch of fans an experts examine the same footage and reach different conclusions so there will always be complaints about a refs choices.
 

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Presumably because there's official channels to raise things like this in rather than going public

Two points.
First. The fact that there are alternatives doesn't mean what he did was wrong. If he did something 'wrong' that necessarily means there has to be a rule against what he did. What rules is that.
Second, neither Rassie nor anyone is getting answers through those proper channels. 'Proper channels' appears to be an euphemism for 'lets keep disagreements and explanations behind close doors so nothing really changes'.
No thanks. In fact, the reason he has a lot of support is precise because he is making things public. **** committees, tribunals, close door meetings, the lot. We want answers and if we dont get them, at least we get someone who at the very least places the spotlight on those who should provide us with answers and do not deliver.

Again, i understand the bias people from W/E/S & I have here as this affects the tour, but please, think for one second and ask yourselves, why does his message resonate so strongly with people who have no skin in the game?
It is because he raises questions we all have and we are tired of not getting answers. It is that simple.

his form is poor, his timing appalling, but the substance is strong. Again, world-cup winning coach saying out loud 'i do not understand the rules'. Neither do i. That's why i like his rant.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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it's about the fact he felt it's ok to rant for an hour on social media
What rule, exactly, did he break. Be specific.
What rule prevents him from feeling that and ranting about it. Again, specifics.

This is unprofessional and makes a mockery of the official channels.
Odd, i think that what is unprofessional is that WR allowed us as a community to get to the point where week in week out we get calls no one can explain and when you address them through official channels you don't get enough clarity nor consistency.

He is in a position where he can use the spotlight to address an issue that i consider relevant, important, and urgent. Criticize him based on the form? I'd give the guy a medal if I could.

Again, i am not naive enough to think he is doing it out of his love for the sport. Course not. He has vested interests and he is playing a card here. But i got to the point where, for the lack of a better phrase, the end justifies the means. The end is i want answers and to be honest, his rant is the closest i've felt to getting those answers in a very long time, so i bloody welcome his rant. I applaud it. I'd amplify it to till everyone in WR becomes deaf if i could.

Again, i understand you have a tour here and that is unfortunate, a shame if you will, but i don't think you understand the size of the nerve his rant touched.
 

TRF_Olyy

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If you want a lie Rassie said that he raised points with WR and should have heard back on Sunday but didn't, and that set him off

JP Doyle said that you literally do not hear back from WR on a Sunday because the official review isn't until Monday, so at the very earliest it's Monday night but almost always Tuesday
 

TRF_Olyy

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First. The fact that there are alternatives doesn't mean what he did was wrong. If he did something 'wrong' that necessarily means there has to be a rule against what he did. What rules is that.
Well he's being brought up in front of the authorities, I'm guessing they know the rules more than you and I

I have literally zero idea what rules coaches sign up to.
Steve Diamond got a pitchside ban for calling Wayne Barnes fat in a post match interview, once
 

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I imagine bringing the game into disrepute being one.
Really who'd have thunk!

Yeah what nonsense it's obvious what he's being bought up on and he'll likely have to plead guilty because it's exactly what he did.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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What rule, exactly, did he break. Be specific.
What rule prevents him from feeling that and ranting about it. Again, specifics.


Odd, i think that what is unprofessional is that WR allowed us as a community to get to the point where week in week out we get calls no one can explain and when you address them through official channels you don't get enough clarity nor consistency.

He is in a position where he can use the spotlight to address an issue that i consider relevant, important, and urgent. Criticize him based on the form? I'd give the guy a medal if I could.

Again, i am not naive enough to think he is doing it out of his love for the sport. Course not. He has vested interests and he is playing a card here. But i got to the point where, for the lack of a better phrase, the end justifies the means. The end is i want answers and to be honest, his rant is the closest i've felt to getting those answers in a very long time, so i bloody welcome his rant. I applaud it. I'd amplify it to till everyone in WR becomes deaf if i could.

Again, i understand you have a tour here and that is unfortunate, a shame if you will, but i don't think you understand the size of the nerve his rant touched.
It's not about rule breaking, it's about conduct. Although broadly speaking it would fall under bringing the game into disrepute.

Ok then, what would you change? Have refs sit down and explain every single bloody decision they made in a game someone had a gripe with? I don't want whinging, I want to hear how you think it can be fixed. I rant about the refs plenty of times myself and have called into question their impartiality but I'm not a coach and nor would I expect any coach in an official capacity to be acting like me on a forum after having a few. If that's where we want to set the bar for acceptable behaviour then we may as well say there no longer are standards and may as well allow players and coaches to call refs corrupt before each game. If this is allowed to pass then we will have coaches in public dissecting every little thing that didn't quite go their way and it will kill the game, not improve it.

As I said, look at footage from the 70's etc. Pretty much every single ruck has illegal play. High tackles are all over the place, knock ons and forward passes galore. The standard of refereeing now is better than it has ever been but we have more ability to scrutinise now than ever. Do you want refs to micro-analyse every decision? It's a bloody no win scenario. When refs take ages analysing decisions or stopping the game for infringements then people complain about how it is killing the flow of the game but when they try to play on those same people complain that decisions didn't go their way. Fine, as fans we do that but the bloody coaches should not be doing it.
 
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What rule, exactly, did he break. Be specific.
What rule prevents him from feeling that and ranting about it. Again, specifics.


Odd, i think that what is unprofessional is that WR allowed us as a community to get to the point where week in week out we get calls no one can explain and when you address them through official channels you don't get enough clarity nor consistency.

He is in a position where he can use the spotlight to address an issue that i consider relevant, important, and urgent. Criticize him based on the form? I'd give the guy a medal if I could.

Again, i am not naive enough to think he is doing it out of his love for the sport. Course not. He has vested interests and he is playing a card here. But i got to the point where, for the lack of a better phrase, the end justifies the means. The end is i want answers and to be honest, his rant is the closest i've felt to getting those answers in a very long time, so i bloody welcome his rant. I applaud it. I'd amplify it to till everyone in WR becomes deaf if i could.

Again, i understand you have a tour here and that is unfortunate, a shame if you will, but i don't think you understand the size of the nerve his rant touched.
Bringing the company into disrepute can be gross misconduct on a lot of companies so 100% he broke some rules.
 

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What rule, exactly, did he break. Be specific.
What rule prevents him from feeling that and ranting about it. Again, specifics.


Odd, i think that what is unprofessional is that WR allowed us as a community to get to the point where week in week out we get calls no one can explain and when you address them through official channels you don't get enough clarity nor consistency.

He is in a position where he can use the spotlight to address an issue that i consider relevant, important, and urgent. Criticize him based on the form? I'd give the guy a medal if I could.

Again, i am not naive enough to think he is doing it out of his love for the sport. Course not. He has vested interests and he is playing a card here. But i got to the point where, for the lack of a better phrase, the end justifies the means. The end is i want answers and to be honest, his rant is the closest i've felt to getting those answers in a very long time, so i bloody welcome his rant. I applaud it. I'd amplify it to till everyone in WR becomes deaf if i could.

Again, i understand you have a tour here and that is unfortunate, a shame if you will, but i don't think you understand the size of the nerve his rant touched.
Why are you talking of proving a lie? That's not the allegation and not necessary for him to be found guilty of breaching acceptable standards and behaviour

Regulation 18: "Regulations | World Rugby" https://www.world.rugby/organisation/governance/regulations/reg-18

Is it wooly and vague? Yes. But that gives them some discretion in these instances
 

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Presumably because there's official channels to raise things like this in rather than going public

Plus there was the implication that Berry was racist, which has led to him getting an absolute ton of abuse on social media
He never called him Racist, said there was a clear difference of respect and communication given between the 2 captains by the ref which is correct.. Doesn't mean he implied the ref was racist.
 

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If what he did is considered misconduct let's close the shop. Poor taste, sure, i can understand, but what, exactly, did he say that was a verifiable lie? He basically questioned interpretations and inconsistencies 90% of the forum members question too, every single week.
Get me the video, exact time, and tell me, this thing which he presented as a fact is a lie. Be specific. You wont find many (in a 40 min video) because of how he presented it. He asked questions. He should be entitled to do so.


Every time i watch a rugby game (most tier 1, premier, top 14, SR, currie cup, pro14, like most here) i have very similar questions to the ones he presented and i am tired of not getting answers. I guarantee you I am not alone here. That is why a lot of people are behind him.
Shutting his arguments based on the form does not address the substance, which is kind of the main issue here.
Are you serious?
 
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