South Africa VS Wales

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This has nothing to do with SH vs NH. I watched this year's six nations and it was probably one of the worst in a long time. No team really looked penetrative on attack other than the French (and that was before they started experimenting with their side).
I'm not saying your defense is bad, it's obviously good, but the fact that you only conceded 2 tries in 6 games was more down to quality of opposition.
[/b]

Obviously. If I said that the Tri-Nations had poor defence because tries were being scored left, right and centre, the arguement would be that the attacking was just too good. :huh: There were many try-scoring oppurtunities for the opposition, but most of the time, our organised defence just pressured them into making mistakes or eventually kicking the ball away. [/b][/quote]

Good attack will always trump good defense. For you to have only let in 2 tries in 6 matches means your defense was either supernatural or the oppoition's attacking play was poor. After watching the 6 nations I feel safe in saying it was the latter.
[/b][/quote]
That's a fairer statement to make rather than:
The other teams were ****, rather than you being good.

Anyway, it's annoying how everyone's saying, "I can't wait to see [Insert South African player here] run loose tomorrow" as if we are even going to let these guys run loose. I don't see South Africa beating us by 20 points tomorrow, and I certainly don't see them scoring more than two tries against us.

 

[loratadine]

good attack will always beat good defence :/
lmaoo id love to believe that but unfortunately all the great sides through history have been bedrocked by having a near inpregnable defence. attacking rugby just gets the headlines

but im afraid defence wins matches.

 

[silent_shadow]

good attack will always beat good defence :/
lmaoo id love to believe that but unfortunately all the great sides through history have been bedrocked by having a near inpregnable defence. attacking rugby just gets the headlines

but im afraid defence wins matches. [/b]

I thought we were talking about scoring tries? Good, strong sustained attack will always leaves gaps in the defense. It's that simple.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotemain'> good attack will always beat good defence :/
lmaoo id love to believe that but unfortunately all the great sides through history have been bedrocked by having a near inpregnable defence. attacking rugby just gets the headlines

but im afraid defence wins matches. [/b]

I thought we were talking about scoring tries? Good, strong sustained attack will always leaves gaps in the defense. It's that simple.
[/b][/quote]

Not always, a strong attack may create gaps, but its whether they score off it and whether the defence recovers from the gap created shows how good a defence is.

 

[silent_shadow]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This has nothing to do with SH vs NH. I watched this year's six nations and it was probably one of the worst in a long time. No team really looked penetrative on attack other than the French (and that was before they started experimenting with their side).
I'm not saying your defense is bad, it's obviously good, but the fact that you only conceded 2 tries in 6 games was more down to quality of opposition.
[/b]

Obviously. If I said that the Tri-Nations had poor defence because tries were being scored left, right and centre, the arguement would be that the attacking was just too good. :huh: There were many try-scoring oppurtunities for the opposition, but most of the time, our organised defence just pressured them into making mistakes or eventually kicking the ball away. [/b][/quote]

Good attack will always trump good defense. For you to have only let in 2 tries in 6 matches means your defense was either supernatural or the oppoition's attacking play was poor. After watching the 6 nations I feel safe in saying it was the latter.
[/b][/quote]

Somehow I doubt Wales defence was down to poor attacking play by the opposition <_<

The fact of the matter is that if Wales would have played SA a year ago without the Gatland and Edwards influence (not including the game in November), Wales defence was probably one of the worst in the NH, but to say that teams were poor in the 6 nations is not exactly a fair comment!
Wales 2 tries in 5 games (I cant see how its 6? You only play 5 times in the 6 nations!) shows that the defence is a good one! If if was not then more teams would have scored and that is a fact!
[/b][/quote]

My bad, for some reason I counted the game against France as a final. :huh:
If you actually read properly you'd see that I already said your defense was good. But that doesn't mean it's as good as you make it out to be especially when the opposition played below par.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'> good attack will always beat good defence :/
lmaoo id love to believe that but unfortunately all the great sides through history have been bedrocked by having a near inpregnable defence. attacking rugby just gets the headlines

but im afraid defence wins matches. [/b]

I thought we were talking about scoring tries? Good, strong sustained attack will always leaves gaps in the defense. It's that simple.
[/b][/quote]
Definately, it's just maintaining your attack that's difficult. And the quality of the attack needs to be good. Problem is, most teams get disheartened by really strong defences (i.e. France v Argentina in the 3rd place-off, where France barely made half a metre just near the Pumas' line), so if you don't get players running lines, no gaps will be made and the attacking side will be knocking on concrete walls for a good two minutes.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This has nothing to do with SH vs NH. I watched this year's six nations and it was probably one of the worst in a long time. No team really looked penetrative on attack other than the French (and that was before they started experimenting with their side).
I'm not saying your defense is bad, it's obviously good, but the fact that you only conceded 2 tries in 6 games was more down to quality of opposition.
[/b]

Obviously. If I said that the Tri-Nations had poor defence because tries were being scored left, right and centre, the arguement would be that the attacking was just too good. :huh: There were many try-scoring oppurtunities for the opposition, but most of the time, our organised defence just pressured them into making mistakes or eventually kicking the ball away. [/b][/quote]


Good attack will always trump good defense. For you to have only let in 2 tries in 6 matches means your defense was either supernatural or the oppoition's attacking play was poor. After watching the 6 nations I feel safe in saying it was the latter.
[/b][/quote]

Somehow I doubt Wales defence was down to poor attacking play by the opposition <_<

The fact of the matter is that if Wales would have played SA a year ago without the Gatland and Edwards influence (not including the game in November), Wales defence was probably one of the worst in the NH, but to say that teams were poor in the 6 nations is not exactly a fair comment!
Wales 2 tries in 5 games (I cant see how its 6? You only play 5 times in the 6 nations!) shows that the defence is a good one! If if was not then more teams would have scored and that is a fact!
[/b][/quote]

My bad, for some reason I counted the game against France as a final. :huh:
If you actually read properly you'd see that I already said your defense was good. But that doesn't mean it's as good as you make it out to be especially when the opposition played below par.
[/b][/quote]

Mate go and re-read, I never hyped up our defence! All I said was that the defence is a good one because whatever the teams they played they are still of a international quality and still to only concede 2 tries in 5 games is something to behold. Yes it is over hyped by some but Im not dancing up and down and doing cartwheels! Just remember no international game should be called a poor standard just because some of the rugby played was not attractive to viewers does not make it poor. Wales defended and attacked well. Im not coming here to get bollocked by others now saying that im only saying this just because Im Welsh, the fact of the matter is the Welsh defence has improved and looks strong as ever. Hence I reckon the game will be a close one!

 

[silent_shadow]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'> good attack will always beat good defence :/
lmaoo id love to believe that but unfortunately all the great sides through history have been bedrocked by having a near inpregnable defence. attacking rugby just gets the headlines

but im afraid defence wins matches. [/b]

I thought we were talking about scoring tries? Good, strong sustained attack will always leaves gaps in the defense. It's that simple.
[/b][/quote]
Definately, it's just maintaining your attack that's difficult. And the quality of the attack needs to be good. Problem is, most teams get disheartened by really strong defences (i.e. France v Argentina in the 3rd place-off, where France barely made half a metre just near the Pumas' line), so if you don't get players running lines, no gaps will be made and the attacking side will be knocking on concrete walls for a good two minutes. [/b][/quote]

My point is: very strong attack > very strong defense. Therefore as I said with only 2 tries conceded in 5 games, Wales defense was either amazing or the opposition's attacking was poor. And in my opinion it was a mixture of Wales having good defense and especially the other teams having below par offense.

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'>
This has nothing to do with SH vs NH. I watched this year's six nations and it was probably one of the worst in a long time. No team really looked penetrative on attack other than the French (and that was before they started experimenting with their side).
I'm not saying your defense is bad, it's obviously good, but the fact that you only conceded 2 tries in 6 games was more down to quality of opposition.
[/b]

Obviously. If I said that the Tri-Nations had poor defence because tries were being scored left, right and centre, the arguement would be that the attacking was just too good. :huh: There were many try-scoring oppurtunities for the opposition, but most of the time, our organised defence just pressured them into making mistakes or eventually kicking the ball away. [/b][/quote]


Good attack will always trump good defense. For you to have only let in 2 tries in 6 matches means your defense was either supernatural or the oppoition's attacking play was poor. After watching the 6 nations I feel safe in saying it was the latter.
[/b][/quote]

Somehow I doubt Wales defence was down to poor attacking play by the opposition <_<

The fact of the matter is that if Wales would have played SA a year ago without the Gatland and Edwards influence (not including the game in November), Wales defence was probably one of the worst in the NH, but to say that teams were poor in the 6 nations is not exactly a fair comment!
Wales 2 tries in 5 games (I cant see how its 6? You only play 5 times in the 6 nations!) shows that the defence is a good one! If if was not then more teams would have scored and that is a fact!
[/b][/quote]

My bad, for some reason I counted the game against France as a final. :huh:
If you actually read properly you'd see that I already said your defense was good. But that doesn't mean it's as good as you make it out to be especially when the opposition played below par.
[/b][/quote]

Mate go and re-read, I never hyped up our defence! All I said was that the defence is a good one because whatever the teams they played they are still of a international quality and still to only concede 2 tries in 5 games is something to behold. Yes it is over hyped by some but Im not dancing up and down and doing cartwheels! Just remember no international game should be called a poor standard just because some of the rugby played was not attractive to viewers does not make it poor. Wales defended and attacked well. Im not coming here to get bollocked by others now saying that im only saying this just because Im Welsh, the fact of the matter is the Welsh defence has improved and looks strong as ever. Hence I reckon the game will be a close one!
[/b][/quote]

You were telling me that you're defense was good. I reminded you that I already said your defense was good. What must I re-read?
Since when did I say the 6 nations was bad just because no attractive rugby was played? It was bad bacuse every other team barring Wales played poorly throughout most of it.

I think we should just call this argument quits and judge Wales' defense tomorrow. This has really gotten off off topic. To clarify, my original point was that Wales conceding only 2 tries during the whole of the 6 nations isn't quite as good as it sounds. But that doesn't mean to say their defense is at all poor.

 

[Cymro]

It has not gone off topic, you called the 6 Nations poor, and its porbably down to the fact that the rugby was not attractive!

And as I did point out in the past the game will be a close one!

 

[silent_shadow]

It has not gone off topic, you called the 6 Nations poor, and its porbably down to the fact that the rugby was not attractive!

And as I did point out in the past the game will be a close one! [/b]

I called this year's 6 Nations's poor! Wasn't there a whole topic asking if this was the worst 6 nations ever? England came 2nd despite almost losing to Italy and playing terribly throughout (with the excpetion of the game against France). Doesn't that say enough? Why must everyone always take everything as a SH vs NH debate?
And yes it has gone off topic because we're currently discussing the 6 nations and good offense vs good defense.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotemain'> It has not gone off topic, you called the 6 Nations poor, and its porbably down to the fact that the rugby was not attractive!

And as I did point out in the past the game will be a close one! [/b]

I called this year's 6 Nations's poor! Wasn't there a whole topic asking if this was the worst 6 nations ever? England came 2nd despite almost losing to Italy and playing terribly throughout (with the excpetion of the game against France). Doesn't that say enough? Why must everyone always take everything as a SH vs NH debate?
And yes it has gone off topic because we're currently discussing the 6 nations and good offense vs good defense.
[/b][/quote]

Read and see where I said this 6 Nations was not poor?

Anyway back on topic

Pity im playing sport tomorrow and cannot watch the game, wont put a score prediction down because I always get them wrong!

 

[silent_shadow]

I still think we'll win it, though I have no clue by how much.
I have a really bad feeling though that if we lose this first test, then we've got a bumpy few years ahead of us. Either way, can't wait for it.
I just hope neither JdV or Chavana decides to get injured. I also hope Mujati has a good game and forgets all that crap about his father that's circulating around. And I hope Bekker plays well and that Matfield has a storming game when he comes off the bench. Oh, yes and Pienaar rediscovers his form. That's dearly needed with 2 potential weak points in Conradie and Jacobs that he may need to cover.

 

[Incredible Schalk]

So many predictions the game is only 14 hours away, Conradie is a big mistake at half back but Cooper's hardly much better. This could be a classic although it is more likely to be a slog with the Boks adjusting to the old rules again.

Picking up on the defensive point in the 6 nations, i would say its a bit of both, no imagination in attack from other teams and very good defense by Wales. I liked the way they set their defense against France they committed no one to the ruck and made the French try and come up with brilliance to get through, which French teams no longer do. You cant really count Scotland as a team who could score tries as we have Dan Parks, the worsest most badest flyhalf evaaa :lol:

 

[Macsen]

I'm going for the double! Ireland to beat the All Blacks and Wales to beat SA. It'll be the 6th of October all over again, mark my words.

 

[loratadine]

couldnt give a **** about ireland, i want them to loose to be honest

anyways back on topic, ummm im rlly rlly excited, doubt ill get much sleep, just watching some old welsh matches, watching wales vs england at wembley lol awesome stuff, guna watch the 6 nations dvd after that then get some shut eye, ready to wake up for the nz game

 

[KZNSharksFan]

lmao
to be honest i think the south africans are gunna be in for one hell of an afternoon

this side gatland nd edwards have built, are far far far too intense to loose by 20 points

it is going to be a war, and south africa will not bully us, theyll try it, nd just like a heavyweight champion we'll come back nd knock them down.

we will win this test.
[/b]

Every year you poor ******** get your hopes up when the June tours roll round. Remember what happened last time a European nation sent a half depleted team to South Africa?

SA 38-12 Wales.

ps. Good defense does win games, as (and correct me if i'm wrong) the team with the least points conceded usually wins the game. Look at what Graeme Henry said last year, "good attacking play wins world cups" etc. etc. What happened there mr Henry?

The best defensive teams won in 95,03 and 07?

Yes, this isnt a world cup but its still a test match.

 

[loratadine]

you seem like a good lad (Y) just throwing that out there

anyways best of luck to the south africans, have nothing but respect for your country nd your rugby team, and ive always found the majority of south africans ive encountered to be very knowledgable and extremely passionate rugby fans

this game has it all really

two fiercely patriotic and proud rugby nations
the 6nations grand slam winners against the reigning world champions
the 6 nations player of the year vs the world player of the year

i stick by what i said, wales are gunna meet fire with fire, and i firmly believe this will be a war

and absolute slugfest

i cant wait

 

[mike-o-l]

I wonder who is gonna kick for polls for South Africa. James has never being known for his poll kicking.
I wouldn't like to be De Villiers if we lose. It would be the first loss at home to Wales. Could be a really slow game, to strong defenses
Should be a great game

 

[Incredible Schalk]

<div class='quotemain'>
lmao
to be honest i think the south africans are gunna be in for one hell of an afternoon

this side gatland nd edwards have built, are far far far too intense to loose by 20 points

it is going to be a war, and south africa will not bully us, theyll try it, nd just like a heavyweight champion we'll come back nd knock them down.

we will win this test.
[/b]

Every year you poor ******** get your hopes up when the June tours roll round. Remember what happened last time a European nation sent a half depleted team to South Africa?

SA 38-12 Wales.

ps. Good defense does win games, as (and correct me if i'm wrong) the team with the least points conceded usually wins the game. Look at what Graeme Henry said last year, "good attacking play wins world cups" etc. etc. What happened there mr Henry?

The best defensive teams won in 95,03 and 07?


[/b][/quote]


You missed the ultimate in defense of the Wallabies in 1999, only one try conceded in the whole tournament.

 

[loratadine]

as ive kept saying i think its going to be a really huge high intensity game

cos i can assure you south africans that this welsh side has NEVER been this aggressive or as intense. and as we already kno the saffas are always intense, so gunna be a fire meets fire game definatly