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South Africas sports minister hits out against quota system

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Sports Minister Mbalula has hit out at the quota system and mentioned that it became “counter-productive.†Talking about a new transformation charter which is in the process of being drawn up the Sports Minister highlighted several challenges that the charter will address that have hampered transformation in South Africa.

"This transformation charter will be much broader, addressing issues of gender, equality, access, and all of that," said Mbalula.
"Quotas became counter-productive. Where quotas have said that there must be three black people, some federations have actually ensured that exactly three people play - even if there are more than three black players in the squad, only three will play."

SARU President, Oregan Hoskins attributed the lack of transformation in rugby on "bottlenecks", saying that the clubs where not selecting enough black players.

"I can give you an endless list of why we have not got to where we are supposed to be," he said. "A fundamental reason why we haven't transformed in rugby is the schooling system."
"People talk about conditioning, dietary issues, discrimination in selection at senior level, clubs not being as open as they should be to black youngsters . these and many other issues are the challenges for rugby.We are committed to transformation, no matter what anybody thinks or feels to the contrary."
Hoskins said SA Rugby is talking to provincial rugby bosses to correct the problem.

"The problem has been at provincial level and that is really the bottleneck. We continue to urge to the provinces to embrace transformation so that the national coach can at least pick players knowing that he is not under pressure to meet national imperatives."

http://www.justrugby.co.za/Springbok-News/Sports-Minister-says-Quota-System-Was-a-Failure.html

This from April 2011

Thought this might be of interest to those who are also sick of quota systems in our sport. The SOUTH AFRICAN MINISTER OF SPORTS has come to the conclusion we did 15 years ago. Its not the best way to do things.
 
Judging by what I'm reading that's not entirely what's happening here.

They're saying the quota system in it's -current- state is not working (herp derp). They still seem to bag on the "provincial level" for not selecting enough black players, or accepting them into academies or something or other. The only subject they touch on that actually is of relevance to any of this is schooling, and that's where things need to change.... if they even can.

Let's consider for a moment that perhaps black people in this country simply -are not- as enthusiastic about Rugby as most white South africans are, there might never be as many black rugby players in school as they're hoping for, and out of the one's that do play the chances simply are that there will not be as many class players.

And if at the end of the day there are a lot of black rugby players and not "enough" of them get picked for club duty and so forth, perhaps they simply will have to accept the fact that just maybe most of them simply aren't that good.

******* in the wind and all that, hooray for our sports administration !
 
I actually don't know what to make of this. It seems to be implying that they might consider a more aggressive approach more than anything else.

I have had a bit of a spat with the OP in another thread my point being that quota's has not affected top level rugby as it has other sports in SA (netball a case in point) simply because the money involved is too much and the unions wouldn't stand for it. It looks like that might be changing if the politicians get their way. Interesting times.
 
WTF? Dude, he is saying current quota systems are not working.

You are saying there is no quota system

The SPORTS MINISTER is talking about an existing quota system which you continue to refuse to acknowledge.

Really now. This is getting a little bit retarded dont you think?
 
Go and look at any other article on the internet that discusses the SA sport minister's speech in Jan 2011. They use the quote in it's actual context, and it makes much more sense. He is discussing the governments new plan to help black players make it into pro sport, and that they now consider quota's a completely unproductive way of achieving this, stating they they cause bottlenecks because clubs only play the minimum number of black players with the quota's, even when there are more than 3 or 4 ones who should be chosen.

Obviously you guys know more than me on the subject and you're going to reply with something along the lines of "how can you tell me it isn't happenning from perth". But all i'm doing here is demonstrating how you have misrepresented the SA ministers view in the OP, for the benefit of anyone watching on. I'd be gladly proved wrong if the SA sports minister doesn't actually abide by his comments, but the point here is that you are using his comments against quota's, to prove there are quotas o_O....

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/rugby/article843205.ece/Quotas-no-solution-says-sport-minister

Highlights from the article:

Rugby unions, sponsors and top players opposed the quota system for years. It has been scrapped in rugby and other sporting codes.

"Quotas became counter-productive. Where quotas have said that there must be three black people, some federations have actually ensured that exactly three people play - even if there are more than three black players in the squad, only three will play."

Mbalula slammed the quota system, which the government forced on white-dominated sports such as rugby more than 10 years ago.

So it seems the government have moved on to addressing the real problem in rugby at least. Even if they are just out-right lying here and quotas are active in the super15 clubs, i'm just showing what you are putting forward as evidence for the quota, is actually the complete opposite.
 
You can probably close the thread after he gets his reply. This whole thread is based on a bad case of quote mining anyway.
 
Bok coach Peter de Villiers won't select Saracens superstar Schalk Brits for the World Cup and believes Chiliboy Ralepelle is currently playing better than Bismarck du Plessis.

http://www.keo.co.za/2011/06/01/brits-a-non-starter-for-rwc-boks/comment-page-1/#comments

Yes, and guys like Adrian Jacobs (instead of Fourie) and guys like Januarie (instead of god knows how many scrummies) and guys like Chilli (instead of god knows how many better hookers we have) are all merit based selections! Just like Raubenheimer was while we left Vermeulen at home! How about Earl Roses trip to the UK? Was that merit based?

Yes! No quotas there Stormer2010!

Not all players of colour are quotas, but not all players of colour are merit based selections either. Only an idiot and a fool would try to convince the world of that.

Ricky Januarie and Earl Rose. WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Whatever man
 
You can probably close the thread after he gets his reply. This whole thread is based on a bad case of quote mining anyway.

I quoted the entire article VERBATIM. HOW IS THAT QUOTE MINING?

Did you even bother to read the source? Apologise for that lie please

You were the one who said that you could not find anything on the web which showed an official position on the quota system. THERE YOU HAVE IT.
 
What is your point? The SA sports minister is opposed to the system and he says so in your own source. You quote him saying they did it 15 years ago, but not anymore. Then proceed to say the government is implementing a quota system. You can't have it both ways.

Even in the 2nd article you have quoted, PDV says he wont be selecting John Smit on merits, is that a government conspiracy?
 
What is your point? The SA sports minister is opposed to the system and he says so in your own source. You quote him saying they did it 15 years ago, but not anymore. Then proceed to say the government is implementing a quota system. You can't have it both ways.

Even in the 2nd article you have quoted, PDV says he wont be selecting John Smit on merits, is that a government conspiracy?

My point is that YOU were one of the people that called me a LIAR for suggesting that there is a quota system. We have South Africans on here, who I can assure you are a minority, that are actually suggesting there is no quota system. They are DELUSIONAL or they are fools.

A quota system exists TNT. You guys dont play our best national side or provincial side because we have not been allowed to field them since 1996.

Do you now acknowledge that there is a quota system in place now? Can we agree on that?

As for Div, he does not select based on form. That much is clear. Perspective mate. Please try to find it.
 
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My point is that YOU were one of the people that called me a LIAR for suggesting that there is a quota system. We have South Africans on here, who I can assure you are a minority, that are actually suggesting there is no quota system. They are DELUSIONAL or they are fools.

A quota system exists TNT. You guys dont play our best national side or provincial side because we have not been allowed to field them since 1996.

Do you now acknowledge that there is a quota system in place now? Can we agree on that?

As for Div, he does not select based on form. That much is clear. Perspective mate. Please try to find it.

No this whole time my only statement has been that YOU do not have a shred of evidence for any of your claims. You quote the SA sports minister saying that they no longer use a quota system as evidence for a quota system, if that is your best evidence i don't trust a thing you say.

Your rants are full of no substance, i have had enough. Come back when you have evidence, and not the 9/11 conspiracy sort about drawing conclusions through the art of clutching at straws (aka: Earl Rose playing a game doesn't = quota).

Anyway, all i hope for the future is that you keep the discussion in this thread and you don't pollute the rest of the forum with this unsubstantiated nonsense. If there is a quota system in the super15, you obviously have no idea about it anyway, seeing as you base your belief on no evidence.
 
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My point is that YOU were one of the people that called me a LIAR for suggesting that there is a quota system. We have South Africans on here, who I can assure you are a minority, that are actually suggesting there is no quota system. They are DELUSIONAL or they are fools.

A quota system exists TNT. You guys dont play our best national side or provincial side because we have not been allowed to field them since 1996.

Do you now acknowledge that there is a quota system in place now? Can we agree on that?

As for Div, he does not select based on form. That much is clear. Perspective mate. Please try to find it.

Dude, if this fustrates you why don't you just not post here?

There have been many before you who have come and spouted insults and racist slants in between trying to present an arguement about quotas

None of the regular posters reply to you because they have been through this crap dozens of times before, and are just sick and tired of it.

Simple, stop trying to prove a point, because few, if anyone, is actually listening
 
It occurs to me here in Nelson (even further away from South Africa than Perth) that maybe, just maybe, there are comparatively few black/coloured people who are actually interested in playing Rugby. On those (admittedly infrequent) occasions when I see SA Soccer teams play, it is very much a case of "spot the whitey". I seem to recall that Bafana Bafana had a white goalkeeper at one time. Soccer in SA appears to attract hugely more blacks/coloureds that whites. Is that a fair statement?

What was the "ultimate" aim of the quota system? If it was to eventually have blacks/coloured playing Rugby Union in a comparable ratio to the overall demographic of SA, then it was surely doomed to failure from the start. There would just not be enough blacks/coloureds interested in playing, so I cannot see any possibility that Springbok squad of 22 would ever be made up of two whites, two coloureds and 18 blacks.
 
I remember only a few South Africans playing for Bafana Bafana in the last 15 years. Hans Vonk, Neil Tovey, Glenn Salmon (of which 2 also played in Holland). Most of them are coloured or black. I don't see any quota systems in place there so why should Rugby suffer from a quota system if the black players are not necessarily better?
 

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