Split from Euan Murray thread.

[Melhor Time]

Dunno what rugby you have been watching this year mate, but thats a shambles of a comment!

1. Better money in the Top 14 than Wales and the Magners League as a whole. Despite being 32 Contepomi got an offer from Toulon to pay him over twice what Leinster did.

2. Speaking of Pumas players - none play in Wales and nor do they ever. Welsh sides tend to go for cheaper players, esp aged Pacific Islanders or journeymen. Not always ala Bowe, Hollah and Collins with Ospreys but these are exceptions. Sometimes the journeymen become great players like Rush and Blair with the Blues and King with Scarlets. These guys were strugglers before leaving Super Rugby. Hollah and Collins were both considered washed up upon leaving NZ too. Collins was poor for Toulon in his one season there. Toulon staff, players and fans all agree that losing Collins to sign Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe has been excellent.

3. The Bayonne source is a strong one. There are other buyers interested, of course, but opting given the better pay, better club conditions and new opportunity I would certainly not say its a shambles of a comment.

4. In terms of quality - the Top 14 has more than the Magners League. Better clubs as a whole and certainly loads more elite players as there is much more money spent on purchasing players. Bayonne lie in 8th spot of the Top 14. Toulouse, Racing Metro, Toulon, Castes, Clermont and Biarritz. Montpellier are not in the Heineken Cup but would certainly be much better than a number of ML sides there simply because their country is awarded spots and has few teams.

The Dragons, Treviso and Edinburgh are in the Heineken Cup but Stade Français and Montpellier are not. Would these sides beat SF or Montpellier... I doubt it. More importantly, in the curernt Heineken Cup, ML sides are in the bottom two of every pool involving ML sides except Pool 2 which has Leinster in the lead. In Pool 1 Castres are second ahead of 2 ML sides (Cardiff and Edinburgh). In Pool 3 Toulon olead with Munster in second and Ospreys in third. Biarritz lead Pool 4 with ML sides in second and fourth. Scarlets lead Pool 5 but see below to understand why... While in Pool 6 Glasgow and the Dragons are third and fourth. Toulouse only not leading because of snow cancelling their match.

The lowest ranked French side is Perpignan who have defeated Leicester once and drawn the other. Certainly better than third place.

Also, don´t forget the Irish policy of prioritizing the Heineken Cup which sees weakened side in the ML year after year. Leinster and Munster are both far better in the Heineken Cup than the ML. Leinster lost to Clermont in France whilst English Champions lost to Perpignan who are 10th in the Top 14.

In addition to facing tams weaker than those found in the Top 14 and intentionally weaker in the cases of Leinster and Munster, the Scarlets have a a misleading pool in the Heineken Cup. They are with Treviso, Perpignan and Leicester. They lead but have played Treviso twice and still have to play Leicester and Perpignan once each. They have 3 wins and 1 loss, Leicester and Perpignan both have to still play Treviso once each. Meaning, don´t look at Scarlets in the HEC to say they are good. Thank the draw for giving them Treviso twice in the first four rounds. Don´t forget Leicester smashed the Scarlets 46-10 in round 2.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Also, don´t forget the Irish policy of prioritizing the Heineken Cup which sees weakened side in the ML year after year. Leinster and Munster are both far better in the Heineken Cup than the ML. Leinster lost to Clermont in France whilst English Champions lost to Perpignan who are 10th in the Top 14.

Bullshit. Take a look at the ML table. Munster top, Ulster in the Top 4. We're having a bad season but we definitely want the title. We made the final last year, Munster won it the year before and us the year before that. As per usual your comments are ill founded and incredibly patronising.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

1. Better money in the Top 14 than Wales and the Magners League as a whole. Despite being 32 Contepomi got an offer from Toulon to pay him over twice what Leinster did.

2. Speaking of Pumas players - none play in Wales and nor do they ever. Welsh sides tend to go for cheaper players, esp aged Pacific Islanders or journeymen. Not always ala Bowe, Hollah and Collins with Ospreys but these are exceptions. Sometimes the journeymen become great players like Rush and Blair with the Blues and King with Scarlets. These guys were strugglers before leaving Super Rugby. Hollah and Collins were both considered washed up upon leaving NZ too. Collins was poor for Toulon in his one season there. Toulon staff, players and fans all agree that losing Collins to sign Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe has been excellent.

3. The Bayonne source is a strong one. There are other buyers interested, of course, but opting given the better pay, better club conditions and new opportunity I would certainly not say its a shambles of a comment.

4. In terms of quality - the Top 14 has more than the Magners League. Better clubs as a whole and certainly loads more elite players as there is much more money spent on purchasing players. Bayonne lie in 8th spot of the Top 14. Toulouse, Racing Metro, Toulon, Castes, Clermont and Biarritz. Montpellier are not in the Heineken Cup but would certainly be much better than a number of ML sides there simply because their country is awarded spots and has few teams.

Also, don´t forget the Irish policy of prioritizing the Heineken Cup which sees weakened side in the ML year after year. Leinster and Munster are both far better in the Heineken Cup than the ML. Leinster lost to Clermont in France whilst English Champions lost to Perpignan who are 10th in the Top 14.

In addition to facing tams weaker than those found in the Top 14 and intentionally weaker in the cases of Leinster and Munster, the Scarlets have a a misleading pool in the Heineken Cup. They are with Treviso, Perpignan and Leicester. They lead but have played Treviso twice and still have to play Leicester and Perpignan once each. They have 3 wins and 1 loss, Leicester and Perpignan both have to still play Treviso once each. Meaning, don´t look at Scarlets in the HEC to say they are good. Thank the draw for giving them Treviso twice in the first four rounds. Don´t forget Leicester smashed the Scarlets 46-10 in round 2.

Still not have watched any Magners League?

Where has the Argentina players come from, this is not a debate about them?

How can you call Rush a journeyman? He came straight from the Auckland Blues, Marty Holah from the Chiefs and Blair from the Highlanders (yes was with Crusaders but moved for game time) :lol:

Bayonne are not in the Heineken Cup ... fact, can't argue it, not a big club and not a club with history like the Scarlets. France may have the money but I doubt he would ship himself out there. I have on good authority that Lamont's word as in the Wales Online article says has had a major effect on where Murray is likely to go, again you can simply ignore this but there we are, can't please everyone.

From what I've seen the Irish sides in the Magners have put the strongest sides possible, so again dunno where you are coming from. Thank you Feic for backing this up

Again dunno where you are coming from the last point, saying the Scarlets are not good, don't matter what team they are playing in the HEC there are no easy games, where they are in the table is where they deserve to be because they try and play a good brand of rugby, if you watched them or watched them in the Magners League / HEC you will see this! Perpignan also no mugs and the Scarlets put a decent Perpignan away.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What do you mean Bayonne has better club conditions that Scarlets?
Performance wise? Scarlets topping their HEC pool, and not doing too shabbily in the Magners
Money? They're not Toulon, but they aren't Celtic Crusaders either!
Facilities? Parc Y Scarlets is one of the best club grounds around atm. I imagine the backroom facilities are all quality too considering how new it is etc.

Sent from my MB200 using Tapatalk

 

[Melhor Time]

Olly

Nothing against Scarlets - Bayonne have more cash. Both options are attractive

Bullshit. Take a look at the ML table. Munster top, Ulster in the Top 4. We're having a bad season but we definitely want the title. We made the final last year, Munster won it the year before and us the year before that. As per usual your comments are ill founded and incredibly patronising.

I learned from a Welsh fan who told me what I told you - Ireland prioritize the Heineken Cup and sure they do. Look at players from Leisnter or Munster in a ML match compared to a Heineken Cup match. Look at the match results. In fact I thought it could not be so upon being told this but it is clearly the way things go with the Irish.

Munster in first place is a rare thing - not the norm. You are familiar with Irish rugby and the ML are you not...

Just incase you aren´t let me jog your memory.

Fact: the Heineken Cup is superior to the ML.

Fact: Munster 6th place in the ML in 2006 yet Heineken Cup Champions.

Fact: Munster 3rd place in the ML in 2008 but Heineken Cup Champions.

Clearly there is something wrong with Munster. And indeed there is, simply put, like I said, they field stronger teams for the Heineken Cup than the ML.

Fact: Leinster third in the 2009 ML but 2009 Heineken Cup Champions. Edinburgh finished higher than Leinster in the 2009 ML.

This season Leinster are the best Irish side in the Heineken Cup but are midtable in the ML in 6th spot behind Heineken Cup strugglers Cardiff Blues and and are the third best Irish side according to the ML. How is this so.... Perhaps priority is given the the Heineken Cup. If, for some reason, you are still in doubt then check the following out:

http://www.magnersleague.com/matchcentre/6290.php



Ian Madigan was flyhalf, Eoin O'Malley centre, Sean O'Brien in the backrow

Meaning Sexton, BOD and Heaslip were all rested. - Three key Leinster players.

Learn more about your own country before saying others are ill-founded and no need to use nasty language.

Still not have watched any Magners League?

Where has the Argentina players come from, this is not a debate about them?

How can you call Rush a journeyman? He came straight from the Auckland Blues, Marty Holah from the Chiefs and Blair from the Highlanders (yes was with Crusaders but moved for game time) :lol:

Bayonne are not in the Heineken Cup ... fact, can't argue it, not a big club and not a club with history like the Scarlets. France may have the money but I doubt he would ship himself out there. I have on good authority that Lamont's word as in the Wales Online article says has had a major effect on where Murray is likely to go, again you can simply ignore this but there we are, can't please everyone.

From what I've seen the Irish sides in the Magners have put the strongest sides possible, so again dunno where you are coming from. Thank you Feic for backing this up

Again dunno where you are coming from the last point, saying the Scarlets are not good, don't matter what team they are playing in the HEC there are no easy games, where they are in the table is where they deserve to be because they try and play a good brand of rugby, if you watched them or watched them in the Magners League / HEC you will see this! Perpignan also no mugs and the Scarlets put a decent Perpignan away.

1. Nothing to do with Argentina per se. Just mentioned them because of Contepomi being in Leinster and now Toulon. He has commented about the differences in France which are relevent considering this is all about the possibility of Euan Murray playing for maybe Bayonne or maybe Scarlets.

2. Rush played one test in 1998 then 7 in 2004. There were always better players around. He was in NZ considered a journeyman much like Todd Blackadder. Ask Smartcooky for his view if you like. Holah was long gone from the All Blacks upon leaving for Wales. Blair much the same.

3. Bayonne have far more history than Scarlets. Scarlets were founded in 2003 vs Bayonne in 1904. Bayonne are better than many sides in the Heineken Cup this year.

4. Scarlets looked strong vs Treviso, but were well beaten by Leicester and Perpignan gace them a good match. Hosting Leicester and playing Perpignan away will be very tough. The need to win both otherwise they will be second in the pool as both Perpignan and Leicester will defeat Treviso.

5. If Murray goes to Scarlets thats not a bad call. Bayonne, from what info I have, will offer more. If I were offered a deal by either to play pro I would take it.

6. I stand by my comments re Munster and Leinster. A guy from Swansea pointed it out to me back in 2005 from memory.

 

[Seaton]

@ Melhor Time

You seriously need to drop this whole 'UK + Irish rugby is overated' and that it is Argentina + non-first tier nations against the world

I am getting ******* tired of you using Scottish rugby as the shite barometer, so Irish rugby prioritizes HC rugby on
The bases that Edinburgh finished in the top 4? Well then **** right off

I hope Murray doesn't go to Bayonne, who play in the all so glamorous yet not because of money league that is the Top 14

 

[munstermuffin]

Melhor time that is nonsense you are talking.

- Maybe there an ML team in bottom 2 of each pool because excluding Leinster pool there 2 ML teams in each pool at least.
- Munster and every Irish province and other nations may loose odd games in ML because we rest our top players and try young guys at times so maybe you should learn about the Munster and Leinster guys contracts that these guys minutes are injured and you mention O'Malley there. He got a chance when BOD didn't play and if you seen last Sunday and he earned his chance from ML and was excellent vs Clermont

 

[Teh Mite]

MTs reasoning may be crap, but the Top 14 is a better league then the ML. And the Premiership. And the Super 15. And every other domestic comp.

 

[Conal]

Olly
Munster in first place is a rare thing - not the norm. You are familiar with Irish rugby and the ML are you not...

Just incase you aren´t let me jog your memory.

Fact: the Heineken Cup is superior to the ML.

Fact: Munster 6th place in the ML in 2006 yet Heineken Cup Champions.

Fact: Munster 3rd place in the ML in 2008 but Heineken Cup Champions.

Clearly there is something wrong with Munster. And indeed there is, simply put, like I said, they field stronger teams for the Heineken Cup than the ML.

Fact: Leinster third in the 2009 ML but 2009 Heineken Cup Champions. Edinburgh finished higher than Leinster in the 2009 ML.

This season Leinster are the best Irish side in the Heineken Cup but are midtable in the ML in 6th spot behind Heineken Cup strugglers Cardiff Blues and and are the third best Irish side according to the ML. How is this so.... Perhaps priority is given the the Heineken Cup. If, for some reason, you are still in doubt then check the following out:

http://www.magnersleague.com/matchcentre/6290.php



Ian Madigan was flyhalf, Eoin O'Malley centre, Sean O'Brien in the backrow

Meaning Sexton, BOD and Heaslip were all rested. - Three key Leinster players.

.

erm still have to disagree

yes mabey a week before a hcup game bod or rogmight be rested but its more todo with them picking up knocks as the are getting older. o'brien would be starting anywayshe is a good player
2009- lenister top of league (lost grand final) munster 4rth
2008- munster 1st lenister 3rd
2007- lenister 3rd ulster 5th munster 6th
2006 ulster 1st lenister 2nd munster 3rd
2005 munster 2nd lenister 3rd

hardly looks like sides that dont care about the magners as all in all lenister and munster are two of the more sucessful and consistintly sucsessfull clubs
with occasional seasons of brilliance from ulster.
that hardly screams we dont care about the ml

 

[Feicarsinn]

Errr Sean O'Brien and Eoin O'Malley both played against Clermont. They're very good players. The IRFU forced our hand earlier in the season when players who toured with Ireland were'nt allowed back straight away.


Look, you can twist the facts any way you want. For example:

Perpignan were French champions last year yet lost to Treviso
Biarritz lost to Aironi, who haven't even managed to get a win in the ML, ever
The two big spenders in France, Racing and Toulon, both were hammered when they travelled to Ireland to play ML teams.
Clermont, despite being one of the best teams in France over the last number of years, have never made it past the HC quarterfinal, having lost to Leinster and Munster repeatedly in recent years.
Perpignan lost to Munster at home last year.
Toulouse focused more on the HC final than the Top 14 final last season. Obviously they must view the Top 14 as unimportant.
Last year Connacht, periennial ML basement dwellers reached the semi final of the Euro Challenge cup, beating a few French teams on their way.


From this you'd get the impression that the ML is better than the Top 14, which it probably isn't. This is why it's so irritating when you come on Melhor and lie to us about our own teams.

 

[gingergenius]

love when MT gets in arguments..

he's right about the Top 14 being a stronger league than any other. he's also right in saying there are some sides in the top 14 that are better than some of the ML teams in the HC, although we'll never know for certain.

nonetheless, it's all a pretty irrelevant debate, because I can't see why Euan Murray would leave Northampton and go to the Scarlets , since they are 1) are a wealthier club, 2) a better supported club, 3) a more successful club, 4) playing in a stronger league, 5) even closer to Scotland and 6) just as likely to play games on Sundays.

The most sensible comment on this topic is one of the Saffas (Intercept?) suggesting he should go to the Currie Cup, since they always play on Saturdays.

However, given that going South's a big move, then Murray would be silly to go anywhere else in the GP and therefore likely to go back to Scotland or chase the cash in France.

 

[Seaton]

Given Murray's religious stance, I can't see him going after the money
I would love it (however infinitely remote thr chance is) if he could come to SA but the rugby bosses
Here only very rarely play oversees players

Whilst we are bandying about slim hopes, maybe the Melborne Rebels may acquire his services for the S15

Meh, either way whenever I follow the Glasgow/Edinburgh matches on the Sky Sports website (spare a thought for me)
I rarely do so on a Sunday, or at least it feels like it

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Just to point out that Scarlets have 3 games on Sunday to come, 2 of them are LV Cup matches ...

Yes the Top 14 is a stronger league, yet I dont think the Saints are better supported than the Scarlets, most passionate set of fans you will ever see. Infact Im not having that point at all. He is guaranteed first team rugby at the Scarlets also and I reckon (and I have good authority ... but there we are who am I to know .... ) that he has a good chance of moving to the Scarlets or back to Scotland. Although my source has indicated that the Scarlets at this time cannot afford him and want to develop within, Murray was keen to join! He wont go to the Currie Cup, well not at least until end of the current NH season ... CC plays June - October, so at the current time its not the most sensible offer . As for a more successful club, thats up to debate. Something that seems to have been clearly overlooked.

And no its not an irrelevant debate, the Irish lads have a fair right to reply to some rubbish that was sprouted.

 

[Melhor Time]

@ Melhor Time

You seriously need to drop this whole 'UK + Irish rugby is overated' and that it is Argentina + non-first tier nations against the world

I am getting ******* tired of you using Scottish rugby as the shite barometer, so Irish rugby prioritizes HC rugby on
The bases that Edinburgh finished in the top 4? Well then **** right off

I hope Murray doesn't go to Bayonne, who play in the all so glamorous yet not because of money league that is the Top 14

I am surprized at your response.

1. My comments on this thread relate to Bayonne which is France not Argentina and certainly not a non-first tier rugby country. France is the country with the best rugby set up on the planet. The best league and stadiums that can´t fit fans anymore. Soccer is number 2 to rugby now.

2. Scotland being shite... well I never said so. I have lots of admiration for Scotland and always pay tribute to the performances of players from the Americas when playing for Glasgow and Edinburgh. Check out my blog for more info. I support Aberdeen hosting tests and, as we have been over, Glasgow too. Edinburgh finishing above Leinster is highly relevent to my argument considering how they did in the Heineken Cup in the same season which Leinster won. Edinburgh won 2 and lost 4 in the HEC. Nothing about them being a bad side - which they certainly are not. Rather they did better than the Heineken Cup champions which supports my point that Leinster do nto always field their top lineups and nor do Munster.

3. About the Top 14 itself. Rory Lamont seems pretty happy. Sean likes Scarlets - Rory likes Toulon.

Munstermuffin

Good point but I am not out to criticize the players selected ahead of the likes of BOD and Heaslip for certain matches. On many occassions the support players are excellent. Contepomi left Leinster and the consequence is ROG is no longer Ireland´s flyhalf.

Conal

Nice post but I don´t believe or want to suggest that Ireland does not care about the ML. Prioritizing HEC matches is entirely different to dismissing the ML which is not what I am saying at all.

Feicarsinn

I did enjoy reading your reply and it was good until the end when you said

This is why it's so irritating when you come on Melhor and lie to us about our own teams.

Lets not get all worked up about this. It is merely an internet chat site. I have certainly not made any lies here. I have offered an argument that you can disagree with but you ought to be objective and not give a subjective response saying I am telling lies. In the hope of a fair debate i will respond to your post.

1. Sean O'Brien and Eoin O'Malley did indeed both play against Clermont and I agree both are great players. Thanks for the info about the IRFU, whom I have seen plenty of press about the policy of the selection of some players for the ML and the Heineken Cup.
2. Perpignan were champs two years back. Clermont won the 2010 final vs Perpignan. The loss vs Treviso was a hell of a shock but similar to Leinster´s loss to the same side this season in the ML as the side was not at full strength. Perpignan then focused on the Top 14 after losing in round three to Munster by 24–23 at Thomond Park. They did defeat Northampton 29-13 in round two. The narrow loss to Munster meant QF chances were all but rare and they opted to play weakened sides for the remainider of the HEC. I am not dismissing Munster´s win in Perpignan. It was a good win.

3. Clermont were Quarter Finalists in the 2010 Heineken Cup, losing to Leinster. How on earth could you forget the shocking kicking from Brock James in your own home ground!



4. Biarritz also fielded a changed side and were defeated by Aironi.

5. True about Racing and Toulon losing in Ireland. Munster and Leinster are great sides. o debate here. Racing did play without both flyhalves though. They will be much stronger when they meet again in Paris in January. Munster were far too good for Toulon but the return match will, of course, be in France and will feature a better Toulon side.

6. Toulouse were near fullstrength in their losing semi-final in the Top 14. A strong bench was selected as they expected to be too strong for USAP after doing really well int eh playoff the week before vs Castres.

7. I was supporting Connact in the Amlin Challenge Cup last season - believe it or not. The did indeed do well. But lets be honest they knocked over Montpellier and Bourgoin who both fielded weakened sides as they have the problem of relegation in the Top 14 to worry about. They finished 10th and 11th in the Top 14.

Irish fans... a nice debate. Keep it up! Top 14 is the king but I follow the ML week in and week out too. Don´t let those cold conditions bother you while I enjoy 38 degree weather.

Its set to continue with Paul Warwick leaving Munster. It won´t be for Wales. France looks like a strong chance as does England.

Feliz Natal do Brasil!
Merry Xmas from Brazil!

 

[Feicarsinn]

I know, I was just making the point that you can give lots of facts to make something appear it's not. The Top 14 probably is better than the ML, I've stated so in the past. I'm was just a bit put off that you think that the Irish teams take the ML lightly. Perhaps we did in the past, but it certainly hasn't been the case for the past five seasons or so.

No offence intended, we're all friends here.


Anyway, while Warwick will indeed be a loss for Munster, they really can't complain about the IRFU not giving them the funding to keep him. They're signing Conrad Smith for next year, who'll no doubt cost a fortune, and Ian Keatley, one of the most promising out halfs in the country. They'll still have three NIQ backs, which is a pretty significant chunk. The whole point of NIQ's are to bring along Irish players, not just improve the province's chances at the HC. Look how in the wake of Elsom's signing and departure Sean O'Brien, Kevin McLoughlin, Rhys Ruddock and Dominic Ryan have emerged as Irish backrow options. You can't have it every way.

 

[munstermuffin]

Feic, Leinster are the same with regards the frontrow but I agree with views on NIQ guys but let's hope we can sign wisely and be smart

 

[Feicarsinn]

Feic, Leinster are the same with regards the frontrow but I agree with views on NIQ guys but let's hope we can sign wisely and be smart

My starting Leinster frontrow could all potentially play for Ireland. Could the same be said about Munster's centre pairings?

 

[Seaton]

@ Melhor Time

1. Indeed, this point I would not have raised in this thread but I did so because of your Argentian/Contemponi leaving/not playing in the ML
And just in general, I mean I've read your Argentina 2023 and why they 'deserve' to host the 2023 WC, and it just (considering your posts on this forum)
Seems like you have an incredible bitterness to the UK, and take any form of criticism of Argentina/ non-tier one rugby, especially from a UK poster, as a personal insult

2. Indeed you never said so, but your posts involving Scottish rugby always imply so
Such as (at the beginning of the season of the ML) posting how both Scottish teams are uncompetitive in the ML, and conveniently forgetting last seasons
And indeed the improving log positions over the last few years. Indeed they are. Not getting the results (I don't have ML access in SA), but from reading reports, they seem
To be more than competitive, and the thrashings they do get tend to only occur in the late second half (I think the Edinburgh vs. Blued match is an example, but will havr to look it up)
You also said that even the tries that Glasgow and Edinburgh do score (from wings) are only through foreign wings, and saying something along the lines of how this translates to international rugby
Again conveniently forgetting how the actual Scottish wings are at admittedly far bigger clubs, and getting regular game-time

With regards to different venues for matches, well as you said we have been over this before, but it still shows that you think of the bosses at the SRU are incompetent, and that you could clearly
Do a better job


3. My comment about the Top 14 was because you were coming across as the rugby version of English Premier League fanboys, who adamantly
Claim that 'their' (even if they live in another country) league is the best, because some top players ply their trade there
And that the aforementioned players are not their because of the money, but because of the supposed heritage and all that crap

Sorry for the typo's, I'm on my phone and tis difficult to type, especially when I'm nae exactly calm.

 

[coonor]

I think Scarlets are in a club moving forward. They play great attacking rugby and their defence has improved. They have passionate fans and great facilties. Lets remember its not always about the money.

Of course the Irish care about the Magners league. The only times the provincs rest players is due to injury, IRFU policy and sometimes if the player has played alot of rugby.

Also if your saying the Ospreys bought Collins and Holah when they were begining to decline then isn't that the same as what Toulon did when buying Smith and Contepomi.

 

[Melhor Time]

LordHope

Don´t worry about typo´s. I am a shocker.

Firstly, I totally agree with you about wingers. Scotland´s two pro teams have imported wingers but the top Scottish wingers don´t play in Scotland so its not so much of an issue. Sean & Rory Lamont, Walker, Danielli and Southwell are pretty much the Scottish back three and all play elsewhere. However, there is an undeniable problem because where can young wingers from Scotland play... This is the issue. Were I a Scot it would bother me.

About Glasgow and Edinburgh and the imports. The leading try scorer for Glasgow has been a Canadian international - DTH van der Merwe (scored another yesterday in the Heineken Cup loss to Toulouse) and the leading try scorer for Edinburgh has been a guy from Holland - Tim Visser.

Incidently, I will put up Toulouse vs Glasgow on my site latter tonight to show the Canadian´s try.

Secondly, I am not trying to slam the SRU. I understand why Murrayfield hosts all the games - except for one vs Canada last year and this year vs Samoa which were both in Aberdeen. Murrayfield is owned by the SRU and so costs nothing to use unlike playing a match elswhere like Hampton Park for instance. The SRU has a huge debt which really is the killer.

However, there is also the issue of alienating others at the expense of using Murrayfield all the time. I don´t know what your view is on Borders Reviers but I was shocked when it all happened. Scotland needed to cut costs and so the heartland of Scottish rugby lost its pro team. A small population being the reason sourced by the SRU.

Wales only use the Millenium Stadium, Scotland only (almost) use Murrayfield and England only use Twickenham. England can get away with it as they fill or virtually always fill their venue. But Wales in the AI´s failed to do so as did Scotland. Aberdeen was certainly a better site for the tests vs Canada and Samoa than Edinburgh was vs Fiji last year.

Correct me if I am wrong but the Ospreys never fill Liberty Stadium. The only time I have seen it fill was the match vs Australia. For the ML and Heineken Cup it is never full. The venue is small but not tiny and is modern. Why not host one test per year.... The one vs Fiji could have been there. They got about 45,000 I believe which is more than twice Liberty´s capacity but still Millenium is 74,000. The issue is the same - Millenium is owned by the WRU and debts need to be paid.

The argument can be made that size matters in a logisitcal manner too as Swansea is not exactly far from Cardiff and nor is Glasgow from Edinburgh. But locals certainly appreciate recieving test matches and it certainly looks good to outsiders. Which brings me to the big picture - the Rugby World Cup. There will come a time for Scotland to host - to bid that is. Scotland would need at least 5 of its own venues and could join with either Wales or Ireland or go alone in having a minimum of 9 venues. So, obviously Glasgow would have 1 venue or maybe 2 yet it never hosts international rugby. A point which would really go against the SRU.

Will Wales, Scotland and also Ireland be ignored like BENELUX in soccer and considered much the same..... Solo bids are preferered - the IRB has said so. Italy looks like a good option and games are spread are they are in Argentina.

Ireland could host on their own if the GAA are open to the idea. I would quite like it but Italy willl be the next European host after England in 2015.