Sport and drugs

[Wally]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 2 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Ok.

He's still a shithead druggy.

And **** at rugby.[/b]

You make your comments on the back off his two year ban for doing cocaine, which is fair enough. But he has done his time and been publicly shamed, yet against it all has managed to come back and establish himself as a front line player in rugby league's premiere competition. That is a great feat in itself. Not only that but from what we see of him on the Footy Show, match analyst during State of Origin and in his weekly news paper columns, he is a good bloke and a very much well liked one in this country. I'm sure you know a lot of professional players take to recreational drugs like Sailor did, just as many their age do outside of sport, and it seems to be a common theme in English rugby at the moment. People make mistakes. So can you really not forgive a player in light of all this?

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Aug 3 2009, 01:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 2 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok.

He's still a shithead druggy.

And **** at rugby.[/b]

You make your comments on the back off his two year ban for doing cocaine, which is fair enough. But he has done his time and been publicly shamed, yet against it all has managed to come back and establish himself as a front line player in rugby league's premiere competition. That is a great feat in itself. Not only that but from what we see of him on the Footy Show, match analyst during State of Origin and in his weekly news paper columns, he is a good bloke and a very much well liked one in this country. I'm sure you know a lot of professional players take to recreational drugs like Sailor did, just as many their age do outside of sport, and it seems to be a common theme in English rugby at the moment. People make mistakes. So can you really not forgive a player in light of all this?
[/b][/quote]

No, I can't forgive anyone snorting cocaine. Especially people who should know better and those who are supposed to be role models for youngsters. If I had my way, people who take that stuff would all have life time bans from ALL sports.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 9 2009, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Aug 3 2009, 01:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 2 2009, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok.

He's still a shithead druggy.

And **** at rugby.[/b]

You make your comments on the back off his two year ban for doing cocaine, which is fair enough. But he has done his time and been publicly shamed, yet against it all has managed to come back and establish himself as a front line player in rugby league's premiere competition. That is a great feat in itself. Not only that but from what we see of him on the Footy Show, match analyst during State of Origin and in his weekly news paper columns, he is a good bloke and a very much well liked one in this country. I'm sure you know a lot of professional players take to recreational drugs like Sailor did, just as many their age do outside of sport, and it seems to be a common theme in English rugby at the moment. People make mistakes. So can you really not forgive a player in light of all this?
[/b][/quote]

No, I can't forgive anyone snorting cocaine. Especially people who should know better and those who are supposed to be role models for youngsters. If I had my way, people who take that stuff would all have life time bans from ALL sports.
[/b][/quote]

You got to question taking a sportsman as a role model though...

 

[Bullitt]

Not at all. Sportsmen are perfect role models, especially for younger kids and teens (although it's also applicable in adults).

Say for example, kids grow up idolising a particular player in their favourite team. I'll pick one from my won youth and say Cantona - He was an exemplary gifted athlete on the field and always a well mannered (if an arrogant enigma) off it. A good example of something to aspire to. Then he buggered up by kicking the seven bails out of a hooligan (all though at the time nobody knew the bloke he got acquainted with his Nike was a known ponce-ball thug). All of a sudden, kids thought to themselves "it's okay to kick someone, Cantona did it". And a lot of them did.

Same thing today, kids all over will/have idolised idiots like Sailor, Stevens, Harrison, Lipman, Crockett and Higgins or even (on a slightly different issue) Vinakolo & Barkely. If they find out that these guys are drug users, so many youngster will mimic their behaviour.

Sportsmen and women have a duty of conduct, as more people then ever idolise and model themselves on their heroes, which included mimicking their behaviour. It should be universal rule that applies to any celebrity - Anyone remember the East-17 fan who died because of cocaine because "Brian [Harvey] said it's okay to take it"?

Then there is one element to remember after all that; All drug users are scum full stop. And nobody "accidentally" takes drugs, it's a concious choice that everyone makes.

Therefore, Wendell Sailor = Scum

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 9 2009, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not at all. Sportsmen are perfect role models, especially for younger kids and teens (although it's also applicable in adults).

Say for example, kids grow up idolising a particular player in their favourite team. I'll pick one from my won youth and say Cantona - He was an exemplary gifted athlete on the field and always a well mannered (if an arrogant enigma) off it. A good example of something to aspire to. Then he buggered up by kicking the seven bails out of a hooligan (all though at the time nobody knew the bloke he got acquainted with his Nike was a known ponce-ball thug). All of a sudden, kids thought to themselves "it's okay to kick someone, Cantona did it". And a lot of them did.

Same thing today, kids all over will/have idolised idiots like Sailor, Stevens, Harrison, Lipman, Crockett and Higgins or even (on a slightly different issue) Vinakolo & Barkely. If they find out that these guys are drug users, so many youngster will mimic their behaviour.

Sportsmen and women have a duty of conduct, as more people then ever idolise and model themselves on their heroes, which included mimicking their behaviour. It should be universal rule that applies to any celebrity - Anyone remember the East-17 fan who died because of cocaine because "Brian [Harvey] said it's okay to take it"?

Then there is one element to remember after all that; All drug users are scum full stop. And nobody "accidentally" takes drugs, it's a concious choice that everyone makes.

Therefore, Wendell Sailor = Scum[/b]

There lies the problem. Sportsmen are people than earn a (often obscene) amount a living by doing something that requires no educated skills at all. To put it mildly, they (usually-this is a broad generalisation) are not the most clever of people, neither the most responsible. A child first role model and guide should be his parents, no some stupid footballer. If parents expect sportsmen to change their behaviour because they can't be arsed to raise their kids well good luck but it ain't gonna happen.
Besides, there's plenty of responsible and brilliant people out there thab could be role models instead of overpaid hicks ; scientists, humanitarians etc...

 

[Bullitt]

Yeah, because a teenager likely to copy what they see is the sort of person who will consider their parents or Steven Hawking as "cool". Johnny-Swatty I don't think will be as vunerable to peer pressure quite as much, will he?

I think you've completely missed the point.


EDIT: thread split.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 9 2009, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah, because a teenager likely to copy what they see is the sort of person who will consider their parents or Steven Hawking as "cool". Johnny-Swatty I don't think will be as vunerable to peer pressure quite as much, will he?

I think you've completely missed the point.[/b]

I don't think I've missed the point at all. Sportsmen are paid to play sports, period. Taking sportsmen as role model is wrong. Sportsmen are amongst the most flawed and immoral public person you could find. Steven Hawking is not cool, but being a responsible and balanced person is not cool from a teenager point of view anyway. If anyone is stupid enough to take coke because some stupid sportsman did so, the problem is in the education of this person, NOT the sportsman. At the end of the day, everybody's responsible for his actions.

 

[Bullitt]

You clearly have missed the point then.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 9 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You clearly have missed the point then.[/b]

ok, care to explain then ?

Why are sportsmen taken as role model in the first place ? They are young, fit, rich, and play with a ball for a living. All of this doesn't strike as being particularly remarkable.

 

[Bullitt]

Try reading it again;

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/index.p...st&p=407822

This is a good article
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3796

 

[gingergenius]

I'm with you that doing coke is unwise. In general I'm open to drugs, but I will never go near cocaine for a number of reasons we've already been through.

However, it is solely up to a player's conscience whether he is a good role model or not. Sailor is the best example, because no one in the world would ever use Stevens as a role model anyway, him being fat and ugly and not very good. But with Sailor... he's come up as a youngster with a great talent, and after some hard work he's maximised that talent. He's become a major NRL star, and then played in a RWC final. He is first and foremost a footballer, not a celebrity or media whore. I don't think if you'd asked a young Sailor what he wanted out of life, that he'd say 'fame' - instead it is the thrill of playing top-level football. And so Wendell Sailor/ any other sportsman has a job, which is to be good at their sport. Sportsmen are not 'community leaders'. They are where they are because of talent in their chosen field, not because they have a talent at communicating morals (as opposed to a priest or a parent).

It is up to the individual to look and decide whether it's sensible or not to do cocaine. It is up to the individual sportsman to decide whether someone in his position should behave in a certain way. It is not up to anyone else to make up their minds for them.

A 2 year ban for cocaine is in my mind too steep. It is not a method of cheating, like Dwain Chambers or cyclists etc etc. It has very little to do with rugby. The punishment therefore should be from the civil authorities for breaking a civil law, not from the rugby authorities. And, as with any other crime, once you have served your punishment all but your reputation should be clear.

Sailor is not scum. We all make bad choices, and so did he. What's more, snorting cocaine has no direct effect on anyone else. And if someone else is stupid enough to make the same mistake because they see Sailor doing it, then more fool them. I have no sympathy with followers.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 9 2009, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Try reading it again;

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/index.p...st&p=407822

This is a good article
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3796[/b]

The core of the problem is that it is more valued by the society to be a sportsman than a scientist. Look no further.
And the mimicking problem, come on. This is an education problem.

THere was this in the article : However, it's exactly because he is a national hero that young people might follow his example in more than just taking up spin bowling. They may believe that his behaviour (and that of others) off the field is acceptable.
Also how strange that this article comes from Australia, a country where sport is about the only thing people care and talk about ?

Now if you believe that any behaviour is acceptable because some "famous person" did it, you're an idiot. Of course nobody should take drug or beat people up, but nobody should idolise famous people neither. Famous people are just that, people, and more often than not not very bright. Nobody forces anybody to take those people as role model. If you idolise an idiot cricketer for more than cricket you're an idiot, and his behaviour is not an excuse for your behaviour.

 

[Bullitt]

As a comment on society, that's fair enough. But the sad fact is these people are idolised whether they like it or not. As such, they should behave accordingly.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Aug 9 2009, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

As a comment on society, that's fair enough. But the sad fact is these people are idolised whether they like it or not. As such, they should behave accordingly.[/b]

Most of them do, except for the 5/10% of stupid assholes that exists in every layer of the society.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charles @ Aug 9 2009, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Why are sportsmen taken as role model in the first place ?[/b]

If i was an 8yr old kid, and wanted to grow up to play rugby for England, then why is it strange that i might look up to a rugby player? They are doing what i want to, so i'd want to be like them

Not strange, from where i'm sitting

 

[alexrugby]

Sport and Drugs, they became so close and so tightly bound that I don't see any promising fact in future

This highly loaded schedules of several tournaments all together make sportsmen to contract drugs

 

[Woldog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Taking sportsmen as role model is wrong[/b]

Who else are we supposed to take as a role model, sorry but Dr. Schiffhousen the worlds greatest Brain surgeon isn't on TV every night...
Kids take sports people as role models because they are in the public eye, My role Models have been George Gregan and Matt Giteau and my latest Role model is Digby Ioane, not some Doctor no ones ever heard of....

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woldog @ Aug 10 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

Taking sportsmen as role model is wrong[/b]

Who else are we supposed to take as a role model, sorry but Dr. Schiffhousen the worlds greatest Brain surgeon isn't on TV every night...
Kids take sports people as role models because they are in the public eye, My role Models have been George Gregan and Matt Giteau and my latest Role model is Digby Ioane, not some Doctor no ones ever heard of....
[/b][/quote]

Well what can I say ? You prove my point exactly. Too bad your world doesn't go outside of the tv. And why do you need a role model anyway ? Are you kid or something ?

 

[Woldog]

Not just kids have role models mate, shows how ignorant you are, a role model is someone you strive to be like/model yourself after. I strive to be a player like Digby Ioane and the stuff I said about them being in the public eye was a generalization as most teenagers/kids watch TV and don't give a f*** about anyone who's not famous.
You obviously have no idea what this argument is about, I suggest you get a point before telling me that I've just proved it.

 

[Charles]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woldog @ Aug 10 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Not just kids have role models mate, shows how ignorant you are, a role model is someone you strive to be like/model yourself after. I strive to be a player like Digby Ioane and the stuff I said about them being in the public eye was a generalization as most teenagers/kids watch TV and don't give a f*** about anyone who's not famous.
You obviously have no idea what this argument is about, I suggest you get a point before telling me that I've just proved it.[/b]

Maybe if you read the post again you'll see what my point is about. Famous people on tv. And btw no need to get your knickers in a twist ...