Spring Tour: New Zealand vs Ireland - 2nd Test. (16/6/2012, 07:35 GMT)

[Feicarsinn]

People calling for Rog's inclusion, lulz.

Anywhoo, D'arcy and Heaslip will both miss the third test. Paddy Wallace has been called up. Quite the kick in the nuts really. With all that in mind I'd be inclined to either throw Fergus in at 12 or shift Drico to inside centre and bring Cave in. Let's be proactive eh? Back row will probably keep Locky and O'Brien and bring O'Mahony in at 8.

 

[lynam1104]

One final comment on this game form me anyone else feel that Kearny would have been better suited to take that last kick about 50m out?

**** hindsight.

 

[coonor]

People calling for Rog's inclusion, lulz.

Anywhoo, D'arcy and Heaslip will both miss the third test. Paddy Wallace has been called up. Quite the kick in the nuts really. With all that in mind I'd be inclined to either throw Fergus in at 12 or shift Drico to inside centre and bring Cave in. Let's be proactive eh? Back row will probably keep Locky and O'Brien and bring O'Mahony in at 8.

When you look at how dangerous our attack looked when ROG and Sexton were playing there is no wonder people see that as an option. Both of them are world class and O'Gara certainly has the experience. When you compare this to our other options, McFadden is a very good player but does he have the ability at this level to in order to beat the All Blacks considering the importance of the 10-12-13 axis. Cave is also a very good player but lacks the experience. Ireland must ask themselves what they want from this game and I cetainly think people will want a win, even if that is to much to ask. I personally don't think a Sexton/O'Gara combination is suitable to start the game, it lacks defensive quality in relative positions and means our bench will lack options able to change the game. I would personally play McFadden at 12 and BOD at 13. Although Cave deserves a shot, I think it might be to late to start moving BOD to 12 etc.

 

[Feicarsinn]

When you look at how dangerous our attack looked when ROG and Sexton were playing there is no wonder people see that as an option. Both of them are world class and O'Gara certainly has the experience. When you compare this to our other options, McFadden is a very good player but does he have the ability at this level to in order to beat the All Blacks considering the importance of the 10-12-13 axis. Cave is also a very good player but lacks the experience. Ireland must ask themselves what they want from this game and I cetainly think people will want a win, even if that is to much to ask. I personally don't think a Sexton/O'Gara combination is suitable to start the game, it lacks defensive quality in relative positions and means our bench will lack options able to change the game. I would personally play McFadden at 12 and BOD at 13. Although Cave deserves a shot, I think it might be to late to start moving BOD to 12 etc.

No. Ronan O'Gara is not a world class outhalf. He's a laughable defender and he has absolutely no running game. His kicking game is in decline as well and this season he's looked extremely average at all levels. The reason we looked better was because Reddan was supplying quicker ball and the AB's defence was giving more ground than they had in the first half. All O'Gara had to do was give the ball to his midfield, something any moderately competent flyhalf could have done.

 

[coonor]

No. Ronan O'Gara is not a world class outhalf. He's a laughable defender and he has absolutely no running game. His kicking game is in decline as well and this season he's looked extremely average at all levels. The reason we looked better was because Reddan was supplying quicker ball and the AB's defence was giving more ground than they had in the first half. All O'Gara had to do was give the ball to his midfield, something any moderately competent flyhalf could have done.

He may not be world class any more but he possesses quality that has the potential to change a game. Look at his performances last seasons h cup pool games. You can't possibly argue that his actions did not change the game and not only with his drop goals. He controlled a limited backline and led them to some great performances. I'm not saying he's the same player as he once was but lets not forget he was nominated for the European player if the year. I think your under estimating his control of the backline when he came on yesterday (even before Reddan) he played flat and hit good runners.... It's not mandatory, it's good control and sharp skill. Having said that, like I mentioned in my last post I still would not start him because of his defensive weakness and inconsistent attacking threat but he is still a very good option.

 

[lucky number 7]

I think Rog Sexton would be our best option in all honesty. However we'll lose a backrower due to having to babysit him.

 

[Peat]

Either there's some more injuries Kidney's not talking about, or it's quite likely Mincer will be involved somewhere... that, or the IRFU looks flying people around the world for no good reason.

 

[dan the man]

Well, well, well... The All Blacks played rubbish and the Irish played so, so well! Just a few silly penalties that kept us in the game really.
I couldn't believe what i was seeing... The Irish were playing some great running, attacking rugby and the All Blacks were playing boring kicking rugby! Haha. Quite a role reversal.

Although Rettalick is a great talent we are really missing the likes of Brad Thorn and Kaino, they brought a bit of mongrel to our defense and added hugely at scrumtime.

...and for the record, that shocking pass from Weepu was cause the ref was in the way... I can't find a video that shows it well but you can nearly see it here at 3:10

 

[Amiga500]

Just watched the game now (full version on youtube in HD if you wanna go looking. Not sure if Admin will jump on me for posting a link or not... but its there, a simple search should find it)


I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but Conor Murray simply must be dropped. OK, his box kicking was a bit better this week, but fundamentally he cannot get either quick, or accurate ball out when the pressure is on inside the other folks 22. Even in general play his pass is often to where the runner is when the pass is given, not to where the runner would be when the pass is received... this just kills momentum and heaps pressure onto Sexton and the centres. Its hard enough playing bloody New Zealand without the scrum-half handicapping your backline further!

 

[admartian]

Well, well, well... The All Blacks played rubbish and the Irish played so, so well! Just a few silly penalties that kept us in the game really.
I couldn't believe what i was seeing... The Irish were playing some great running, attacking rugby and the All Blacks were playing boring kicking rugby! Haha. Quite a role reversal.

Although Rettalick is a great talent we are really missing the likes of Brad Thorn and Kaino, they brought a bit of mongrel to our defense and added hugely at scrumtime.

...and for the record, that shocking pass from Weepu was cause the ref was in the way... I can't find a video that shows it well but you can nearly see it here at 3:10

Yeah that was a terrible pass. Had it been better, it would've given DC more time to line up the shot.

While the win wasn't pretty, I still like it. I like us having to win these tight games, especially with so many new guys, just so they can experience these things and hopefully carry them over to a WC.

We need to be less pampered and arrogant as fans, just because the ABs don't win by 10-15 every time.

No offence to some NH teams, but these are the wins that they're used to, and you take them - and should be happy with the result.

 

[smartcooky]

...and for the record, that shocking pass from Weepu was cause the ref was in the way... I can't find a video that shows it well but you can nearly see it here at 3:10

Here you go...


[video=dailymotion;xrkh7y]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrkh7y_nzlvirl2012-2_sport[/video]


Absolutely no doubt that Nigel Owens was the cause of the loopy pass.

Not so obvious initially, but look for the end on view when the broadcast team do the review at the end of this snippet starting at 1:06

Yeah that was a terrible pass. Had it been better, it would've given DC more time to line up the shot.

I think you missed Dan's point. The poor pass was not really Weepu's fault!

 

[admartian]

Here you go...


[video=dailymotion;xrkh7y]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrkh7y_nzlvirl2012-2_sport[/video]


Absolutely no doubt that Nigel Owens was the cause of the loopy pass.

Not so obvious initially, but look for the end on view when the broadcast team do the review at the end of this snippet starting at 1:06



I think you missed Dan's point. The poor pass was not really Weepu's fault!

No I got it.

His fault or not (which I'm not really debating as per the evidence) it did affect the kick (unequivocally). That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[smartcooky]

While the win wasn't pretty, I still like it. I like us having to win these tight games, especially with so many new guys, just so they can experience these things and hopefully carry them over to a WC.

Yep. There's an old saying that you learn more from your losses than you do from your wins.

However, winning ugly like that, pulling it out of the bag at the eleventh hour, is a bloody good compromise.

 

[Larksea]

I'm 50/50 on the ref being the reason for the crap pass or just being a handy excuse for it

ref was pretty stupid for getting in that position though, if anything piri should have just thrown it and hit him. and take the scrum

 

[TRF_heineken]

Guys, just look at who was the REF... Nigel Owens... that alone should give you clear vindication that any other possible factor is null and void!

 

[Sam Owen]

Guys, just look at who was the REF... Nigel Owens... that alone should give you clear vindication that any other possible factor is null and void!

Yeah Nigel Owens has always been a suspect reff but then again so are many others.

I believe Owens accidently got in the way and that caused Piri to spin it higher than what was needed. Piri knew he had to get it quickly and at about belly button height, to better serve DC for his droppie attempt. Instead he did what he did and got it to DC and as good as DC is, he is not as good as Morne Steyn when it comes to putting the ball through the sticks.

 

[antipodean]

Actually Owen's positioning around the ruck was pretty crap in both the first and second test.

 

[smartcooky]

Actually Owen's positioning around the ruck was pretty crap in both the first and second test.

I agree.

IMO, that is a consistent fault in his technique, he stands too close to the ruck, and spends too much time in what we call the "chariot" position; directly behind the attacking team's ruck. This also leads to him getting in the way of players more than he should.... for example....

 

[smartcooky]

and....

 

[big ginger 8]

Haven't been able to post because of a family event away from internet access.

I still can't believe we didn't win. We really should have. I have to wonder what do the Healy haters think now? He is week in week out destroying there arguments against him and is also doing it over the full 80. Rory Best as well was excellent he gets through so much work and is undoubtedly the best hooker in the home nations. Some question why Cronin isn't brought on and a lot of the time I agree, but Best is so important and also the VC and you do need all your leaders on in tight games. Pretty much everyone realises Ross' importance to the team but most do only because of our lack of another 3 and not in his own right, yet Gethin Jenkins list him in his top three of hardest opponents to scrummage against and he has really improved his carrying.

Dan Tuohy thus far has sadly failed to fully step up he's done a lot of work but is nowhere near his Ulster level of course he is against the world champions so I'll reserve judgement. Donnacha continues to become an integral part of the team and I really can't wait to see him and PO'C starting together.

McLaughlin was everywhere, gets through o much work a real unsung hero. SO'B while he honestly has lost some of his power and his no longer really a first phase carrier (still a class second phase one though) has developed into an excellent 7 bossing the breakdown. While many were petitioning for Heaslip to be dropped he's really come back into form and just ads a real touch of class. Has the best hands and control at the base in the world IMO out of any 8 in the world. Not best 8 in the world just at those aspects.

Murray had one of his better games and grew as the game went on. Was very slow and dithering at the start but got quicker as the game went on probably because the quality of the ball got much better. Sexton had I think his best game in an Irish shirt better than the Fiji, S.A. and England matches was very astute in everything he did and has gotten rid of any lingering fears over his place kicking at international level.

D'arcy had his best game for Ireland in years bringing his Leinster form with him was distributing really well. While O'Driscoll was incredible as usual he just doesn't stop does it was incredibly hard to watch his interview at the end.

Trimble was pretty anonymous but solid in everything he did apart from one slice. McFadden was hugely improved on last week chased all night long and always made yards when carrying. Kearney didn't have his best game but was still pretty good.

Really annoying to here about our injuries is there any news on Read? I doubt he'll be available for N.Z.

Someone asked why N.Z. are playing at night, the answer is so that us Irish can actually watch our team!

I have to say on that scrum I thought it was our penalty as I believe once Franks knew he'd lost the hit let himself to go back to win the penalty. A lot of our dominance was down to the N.Z. backrow looking up it was quite clear we also used what seems to be one of Feeks favorite tactics where the 9 runs off as if he's going to receive a pop off the 8 but the ball stays in the, oppositions backrow's heads go up and you get a real good drive on.

Here's hoping we can do it next week. Of course both teams will improve but the N.Z.ers will be ready for us.