Springbok and SA "A" squad for France and French Barbarians

[TRF_heineken]

The squads will be announced at 13:00 today

So I'll add it to this post when it happens.

Just thought I'd get the thread up before we see 7 threads of the exact same thing.

Springbok squad to face France:
Forwards: Lood de Jager, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Ruan Dreyer, Eben Etzebeth, Steven Kitshoff, Siya Kolisi, Jaco Kriel, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Bongi Mbonambi, Oupa Mohoje, Franco Mostert, Tendai Mtawarira, Lizo Gqoboka, Coenie Oosthuizen, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Duane Vermeulen, Warren Whiteley (captain)

Backline: Lukhanyo Am, Andries Coetzee, Ross Cronje, Damian de Allende, Francois Hougaard, Elton Jantjies, Jesse Kriel, Dillyn Leyds, Rudy Paige, Raymond Rhule, Jan Serfontein, Courtnall Skosan, Frans Steyn

South Africa "A" to face the French Barbarians:
Forwards: Ruan Botha (lock), Uzair Cassiem (loose forward), Chris Cloete (loose forward), Thomas du Toit (prop), Andries Ferreira (lock), Jason Jenkins (lock), Wilco Louw (prop), Jean-Luc du Preez (loose forward), Franco Marais (hooker), Ox Nche (prop), Sikhumbuzo Notshe (loose forward), Andisa Ntsila (loose forward), Trevor Nyakane (prop), Ramone Samuels (hooker),

Backs: Ruan Combrinck (wing), Lionel Cronje (flyhalf), Juan de Jongh (centre), Warrick Gelant (fullback), Makazole Mapimpi (wing), Lionel Mapoe (centre), Dewaldt Duvenage (scrumhalf), Jamba Ulengo (wing), Francois Venter (centre), Jano Vermaak (scrumhalf), Harold Vorster (centre), Fred Zeilinga (flyhalf),

 

[JohnKA]

http://m.sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/bok-squad-named-for-france-series-20170523

This is sad...

 

[Durbanite]

Some very strange choices, I'm not sure what to say... Paige, Rhule, DDA at least should be out, they've all had shockers this season. I'm glad Whiteley is captain, the dude has some serious passion

 

[Sker]

*sees springbok announcement*
*comes out of hiding*
*sees actual team*
*goes back into hiding*

 

[TRF_heineken]

*sees springbok announcement*
*comes out of hiding*
*sees actual team*
*goes back into hiding*

I think this is actually a good squad. He's actually picking the players in form. And it's safe to say that Frans Steyn will be our back-up fly half, if he doesn't start...

 

[Durbanite]

I think this is actually a good squad. He's actually picking the players in form. And it's safe to say that Frans Steyn will be our back-up fly half, if he doesn't start...

Definitely our backup 10. Haven't seen any of the overseas guys in action so no idea what to expect (Kitshoff, Vermeulen, Hougaard and Frans Steyn) but they're noted performers and not many of them in the team, which is a bonus. Frans wouldn't be in the squad if all our 10s weren't injured or unavailable I reckon.

 

[Sker]

shhh bad thoughts can't hurt me in my blanket fort, in here we don't lose to Italy

 

[Big_Grumper]

I think it looks positive. He's picked players based on form and performances.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Definitely our backup 10. Haven't seen any of the overseas guys in action so no idea what to expect (Kitshoff, Vermeulen, Hougaard and Frans Steyn) but they're noted performers and not many of them in the team, which is a bonus. Frans wouldn't be in the squad if all our 10s weren't injured or unavailable I reckon.

I think Frans would have been picked no matter if we had other Fly Halves available or not. All the overseas based players that he picked, were on form and playing well, and is fit.

It's interesting to see Francois Louw as an omission, which makes me think that our new assistant coaches told AC to stop the kak and pick guys on form.

Seeing Hougie in the squad too makes me very happy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wonder if Frans Steyn will start V England this weekend?

 

[George Ford]

Suppose it doesn't matter who has been selected - what matters is that the performance is not the same as last year.

 

[unrated]

I am happy and confused.
Happy with the inclusion of Frans Steyn it was about time that the most talented player South Africa has ever produced got selected for the Springboks again.

Is Bissy injured ? Otherwise why would AC acknowledge some players in Montpellier but not all.

Why is Ruan Combrinck not in the main Springbok squad? Did AC not watch the Bulls Lions game.

Ross Cronje is not on a Springbok level. He looks on form but that's because the lions are playing well. He failed to become a starter at his old union and until recently he was second choice at the lions . How is it that one year a player can't make the first team at provincial level but then becomes a Springbok the next year?

 

[SomeOke]

The Bad:
Jean-luc du Preez should absolutely be in the squad over Mahoje.
Oupa Mahoje??
Chiliboy Ralepelle - No.
Lood de Jager??? I'd rather have any of the other Bulls locks.
Rudy Paige??

The Medium:
Lizo Gqoboka is OK but Ox Nche is better in almost every aspect.
Where is SP Marais? Sorry Lions fans but he has been better than Adries Coetzee.
Mampimpi should be here over Rhule.
Cloete should be in the first team picture.

The ugly: Frans Steyn: He hasn't played a decent bout of rugby for SA in years and has a terrible attitude. I don't know how anyone could see his selection as a good thing. This is a retreat into AC's comfort zone of yesteryear. Let's just use a huge boot to kick our way into a few victories. Yawn.

I do think quotas are unfortunately still playing a small part, which I only realized when I reread the problems I had with the squad.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I am happy and confused.
Happy with the inclusion of Frans Steyn it was about time that the most talented player South Africa has ever produced got selected for the Springboks again.

Agreed on Frans, and it seems like he has finally got over the mental hurdles he had after his brother's death.

Is Bissy injured ? Otherwise why would AC acknowledge some players in Montpellier but not all.

Last time I checked, Bissy's father passed away, and I don't know if that has had an impact on him and making himself available for selection. Or perhaps AC wants to keep him out until the RC tournament...

Edit: Just as I finished posting, I saw the article on sport24 where AC explains his choice on leaving out Bissy: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/bok-coach-explains-bismarck-omission-20170524

Why is Ruan Combrinck not in the main Springbok squad? Did AC not watch the Bulls Lions game.

To be fair, Ruan only just returned from injury, and the players selected for the Boks has been injury free, and playing very well. It doesn't necessarily mean that some of the SA "A" players won't feature for the Bokke. Remember that they will train together, and if there are injuries, the "A" players will easily slot in with the Bokke.

Ross Cronje is not on a Springbok level. He looks on form but that's because the lions are playing well. He failed to become a starter at his old union and until recently he was second choice at the lions . How is it that one year a player can't make the first team at provincial level but then becomes a Springbok the next year?

I strongly disagree here. Some players evolve the more they play. Ross has certainly made the step up from last year. He has been the shining light at 9 and has been consistently better than any other scrumhalf in the competition. He's also the guy that gets the ball away the quickest. I'd keep him on the bench and have Hougie start.

The Bad:
Jean-luc du Preez should absolutely be in the squad over Mahoje.
Oupa Mahoje??
Chiliboy Ralepelle - No.
Lood de Jager??? I'd rather have any of the other Bulls locks.
Rudy Paige??

Aren't you a bit biased towards Mohoje? He has been playing rather well for the Cheetahs.

All these other players are already Springboks. And AC has a lot of debutants he's picking for this incoming tour, At some point he has to make a call. Jenkins is with the "A" side, and RG Snyman is serving a ban, so he can't play the first 2 matches anyways.... Paige is still better than Faf at the moment though...

The Medium:
Lizo Gqoboka is OK but Ox Nche is better in almost every aspect.
Where is SP Marais? Sorry Lions fans but he has been better than Adries Coetzee.
Mampimpi should be here over Rhule.
Cloete should be in the first team picture.

I would have picked both of Ox and Lizo, and left Beast out...
Don't agree with you on Coetzee vs Marais. Marais has a tendency to buckle under pressure, and Coetzee's bigger boot will help us get out of trouble. Coetzee is also better on the one on one situations.

Mapimpi and Cloete I think are players in the scope for the RC tournament, let's see what they can do with the "A" side first...

The ugly: Frans Steyn: He hasn't played a decent bout of rugby for SA in years and has a terrible attitude. I don't know how anyone could see his selection as a good thing. This is a retreat into AC's comfort zone of yesteryear. Let's just use a huge boot to kick our way into a few victories. Yawn.

Have you watched some of the games he played this past season? He has been miles better than he has been before, as for his attitude, I'm sure Brendan Venter and Franco Smith won't tolerate any bad attitude from anyone. Just like White, they know how to get the best out of players and keep the discipline.

I do think quotas are unfortunately still playing a small part, which I only realized when I reread the problems I had with the squad.

It's a slippery slope. I honestly think that every black player that is there, is there on merit.

 

[SomeOke]

I'd had a few drinks last night so you could be right about everything @Heineken.
I personally intensely dislike Steyn but maybe's he's been playing out of his socks.
Coetzee probably has the better all round skill set than Marais, so fair - I still think Marais is close to the best attacking back we have but fair.
Mahoje is a OK player but he's wildly outclassed for me by someone like JLDP.
Chilliboy, Lood and Paige I still think are passengers.

 

[unrated]

Chiliboy is not in the squad on merit. Franco Marais is first choice at the Sharks. There are many better hookers available. But it is what it is.

 

[Durbanite]

We got Marx finally though and Chiliboy can be useful as an impact player. I'm pleased that Habana and JPP are excluded, Bok rugby has been way too full of aging overseas players of late. What happened to Reinach?

 

[TRF_heineken]

We got Marx finally though and Chiliboy can be useful as an impact player. I'm pleased that Habana and JPP are excluded, Bok rugby has been way too full of aging overseas players of late. What happened to Reinach?

He's been playing crap...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have mixed feelings as ever.

Our backrow will be as unbalanced as a typical AC backrow; Vermeulen and Whiteley are two vastly different no8s. Picking both tells me he still hasn't settled on an approach and we will continue to see a clueless, identity-less middle road to nowhere approach to the game. Same with Kriel and Kolisi at 6 and Mohoje and Notshe at 7. I am not as optimistic as thinking AC has these wildly different players per position there for a horses for courses approach. I am not convinced Whiteley, Mohoje or Notshe suit test rugby. At least not the direct, "low risk-low (or no?) reward" approach AC favors.

In the frontrows and locks I expect the extended squad is just window dressing like we have come to expect and I trust that the front runners will do duty but there is always that awkward situation when injuries mean the likes of Ralepele needs to be leapfrogged for someone from outside the actual squad. I include De Jager here. I think he is only there because he already has caps and is only making up the numbers behind Etzebeth, Mostert and PSdT.

Paige? Yikes. I like the inclusion of Hougaard but he is probably a liability if forced to play a game other than his natural one which I expect will be the case.

We are done for for the no.10 jersey with Lambie, RdP, Pollard, Bosch, JLdP and Goosen all unavailable. No point moaning there. I actually think Lionel Cronje has been the form SA 10 in SR and most likely to translate well into test rugby but will cede to having Jantjies have first go at it due to already being a Bok and the 'Lions connection'. Please, please, please no Frans Steyn show at 10!? Pretty please. I can just see that sulking face in my mind right now.

Centres I'd have loved some combination of RjvR, Vorster and EW Viljoen. None of which is included for whatever reason. I like the look of Am enough but more for the SA 'A' side in his first season? DDA has hardly had any game yet is there while Combrinck is not? At least Combrinck tore it up in his time back. Not sure what the deal is there particularly with us light on the wings. Frans Steyn, Kriel and Serfontein in line for center berths fill me with dread. Maybe the Bulls' poor season is too much of a consideration for me and I might be being unfair on the Bulls duo. Is Kriel more in consideration for 15 then with Coetzee the only other 15? I suppose F Steyn (though he really shouldn't) and Lleyds are also options at the back. I like Rhule for a wing spot. Think he is wasted at the Cheetahs.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have mixed feelings as ever.

I think most of us do...

Our backrow will be as unbalanced as a typical AC backrow; Vermeulen and Whiteley are two vastly different no8s. Picking both tells me he still hasn't settled on an approach and we will continue to see a clueless, identity-less middle road to nowhere approach to the game. Same with Kriel and Kolisi at 6 and Mohoje and Notshe at 7. I am not as optimistic as thinking AC has these wildly different players per position there for a horses for courses approach. I am not convinced Whiteley, Mohoje or Notshe suit test rugby. At least not the direct, "low risk-low (or no?) reward" approach AC favors.

I hear you, but I'm thinking that Duane might be used as a 7 along with Whiteley and Kriel. With Mohoje or Kolisi on the bench covering.

In the frontrows and locks I expect the extended squad is just window dressing like we have come to expect and I trust that the front runners will do duty but there is always that awkward situation when injuries mean the likes of Ralepele needs to be leapfrogged for someone from outside the actual squad. I include De Jager here. I think he is only there because he already has caps and is only making up the numbers behind Etzebeth, Mostert and PSdT.

Well, Let's look at the Hookers. Marx should be first choice, no argument here, but he's still terribly shaky at the lineouts. Chilliboy on the other hand has been great at the lineouts as well handling the ball in the mauls. Bongi, probably just a seat-filler again.

As for the locks, I think if Snyman didn't get cited, he would have been an obvious pick for AC. So I think Lood is a lucky selection here.

Paige? Yikes. I like the inclusion of Hougaard but he is probably a liability if forced to play a game other than his natural one which I expect will be the case.

Hougie has been playing really well for Worcester though. But Paige is a bit of a bad call, I'd rather gone for Schreuder.

We are done for for the no.10 jersey with Lambie, RdP, Pollard, Bosch, JLdP and Goosen all unavailable. No point moaning there. I actually think Lionel Cronje has been the form SA 10 in SR and most likely to translate well into test rugby but will cede to having Jantjies have first go at it due to already being a Bok and the 'Lions connection'. Please, please, please no Frans Steyn show at 10!? Pretty please. I can just see that sulking face in my mind right now.

Well Pollard did mention in a post a couple of days ago that he might be ready to play against France. So I'm thinking that AC took the chance of not picking another fly half, with the idead that Pollard might recover in time?

Centres I'd have loved some combination of RjvR, Vorster and EW Viljoen. None of which is included for whatever reason. I like the look of Am enough but more for the SA 'A' side in his first season? DDA has hardly had any game yet is there while Combrinck is not? At least Combrinck tore it up in his time back. Not sure what the deal is there particularly with us light on the wings. Frans Steyn, Kriel and Serfontein in line for center berths fill me with dread. Maybe the Bulls' poor season is too much of a consideration for me and I might be being unfair on the Bulls duo. Is Kriel more in consideration for 15 then with Coetzee the only other 15? I suppose F Steyn (though he really shouldn't) and Lleyds are also options at the back. I like Rhule for a wing spot. Think he is wasted at the Cheetahs.

Well, RjvR is injured, and was also held hostage in his home, so I'm wondering if he's mentally up for the task. Vorster is in the "A" squad though. But don't be so hard on Serfontein, he had a torrid time with injuries, and since his return, he has been showing glimpses of what he can do, at both 12 and 13. I would love to see him combine with Steyn with Steyn at 12 and Serfontein at 13.

As for the Wings, Rhule, Leyds, Combrink, Skosan, Ulengo, Mapimpi, Mvovo... All of them have been great. If I had to pick 3 it would be Skosan, Combrink and Leyds.

Actually Leyds is probably our 3rd pick for fly half isn't he? And if we have Steyn and Coetzee there, we have cover to kick at goal.

The other thing is that a lot can happen still. Injuries in this final Super Rugby weekend before the series starts, could have a major impact so, we'll have to wait and see.