Springbok Contracts

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by mdaclarke, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. mdaclarke

    mdaclarke Academy Player

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  3. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    I don't think Rassie is in any way involved in this matter. I think this is more the CEO and Financial advisors at SARU looking at alternative ways of compensation.

    It's a double-edged sword, and the issue is that no matter which way SARU is going with this, there'll be unhappiness.

    If they stick with the current contract system, they will end up losing a lot of money, and sometimes they even pay a player a yearly salary while that player is out injured and doesn't contribute at all to the Springboks, also preventing another player from getting that Springbok contract, as SARU has a limit on how many guys they can support.

    If they go for the pay-to-play system. They will only pay the players actually playing for the Springboks and who features in some shape or form in the match. Which will prevent SARU from excessively spending money.

    The question however is that there is no clear answer from SARU as to how the remuneration will work. Will the players be paid more money for playing? Will they be paid on how many minutes they play? Will they be paid if they are substitutes and only get on the pitch for the last 4 minutes?

    I personally think that the way the message got out, just caused a lot of confusion unnecessarily, and without a clear answer from SARU on the matter, there will be reluctance from the players to sign new deals.
     
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  4. mdaclarke

    mdaclarke Academy Player

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  5. TRF_heineken

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    I merged your threads to one @mdaclarke as they both are basically connected to one another with the latest article basically the response we wanted from SA Rugby regarding the future of salaries for SA players.

    I love this idea, and I really hope with will not only help the current stars, but also have the back-up plans in place for the future generations of springboks.

    What the article doesn't say though, is how the players will be paid in future. I know the plan is now in place, but how is it going to be implemented as it seems like SA Rugby will be paying the largest amount of funds to the players, but they also get paid by their franchises/club/union. Will the players be getting 2 salaries? will there be some form of commission/pay-for-play reward, or will there be a mixture of all of it together.
     
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  6. mdaclarke

    mdaclarke Academy Player

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    I like how they are being open about how they will enforce Regulation 9. Good move
     
  7. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    And the scrapping of the 30-cap rule for foreign based players.

    Now they can pick everyone, even uncapped players abroad... Maybe even contend to cap players who might be "project players" for other countries.
     
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  8. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    Is this a case of Super Rugby is South Africa is dying slowly and well they are now looking at "ok to foreign based players as we save money and can pay appearsance fees".
     
  9. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Not necessarily, no. I think it's more of a case to keep more young talent who are Springbok hopefuls, not to be lured away too soon, and maybe with the new payment model, might even prevent a bigger exodus of players, which could only aid in keeping the Super Rugby teams stronger.
     
  10. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Hall of Fame

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    But isn't the issue to that Super Rugby is a bit in the dark over the future. Must admit I'm not fully up to date on all the in's and out's so could be wrong. But Does it not encourage a young guy to go to France on probably double what he'd be on in SA. Prove his worth and still be free to be called up. All this of course depends on selections approach.
     
  11. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    There are some unknown issues with regard to Super Rugby, but it's more to do with how many teams must feature and the type of model they should use.

    SA Rugby already announced that there is no intention to leave SANZAAR or Super Rugby, so there is always going to be SA teams in the system, and will be the best way for youngsters to get exposure to top-class rugby and see whether or not they are Springbok material.

    This plan is not to prevent players from going abroad, and SA Rugby can't prevent players from going abroad, all they want to do is to try and persuade more players to stay in SA and be part of the Springbok process locally, and hopefully even be financially rewarded even if they don't play for the Springboks every game...
     
  12. mdaclarke

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    That would be one in the eye for the Scots and Irish.
     
  13. mdaclarke

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    I can't see Super Rugby going anywhere or any of the Lions, Sharks, Bulls, Stormers going anywhere either. Maybe the Sunwolves could be ditched but apart from that I don't see much change in Super Rugby.

    I could see the Griquas and Pumas going North
     
  14. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    There were rumours that the Sharks might join the Cheetahs and the Kings in the Pro14, but it seems like that fizzled out faster than Usain Bolt at the Olympics.

    I can't see any other SA team moving from where they are now, based on the models available now, and the funding available. Maybe things might chance once the Unions are privatised, but at the moment that's just a pipedream.

    So basically we'll be with the current system until 2021 for now... maybe even longer
     
  15. mdaclarke

    mdaclarke Academy Player

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    I personally think that the Springboks shouldn't be too bothered about players going north. Think Brazil/Argentina in footy. The players can get experience of playing in Europe and the Younger players can get opportunities in Super Rugby. May help the Boks

    I also think that there should be fewer professional rugby players in South Africa but pay them more.
     
  16. Bruce_ma_goose

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    I know less than nothing about central contracts, so I'll focus on the change to make every overseas based player eligible for the Boks. I'm not going to be too critical, because I think Rassie is right about the economic realities and this day has been coming for the SH nations - it's just been a case of who would blink first. But it is another example of him giving himself access to players that his predecessor weren't allowed to pick - which may not be entirely coincidental (who wouldn't want to make their own job easier?). They've not even given the 30 cap rule 18 months, which strikes me as a hasty change. They haven't given that policy enough time to evaluate its viability in the long term. I thought it, combined with a Gatlands Law would be a credible policy balancing Bok strength and player development in SR. Once you authorise an exodus you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

    I dont see how releasing top tier Bok talent to Europe at an early age will reduce project players, but the 5 year residency might hopefully help mitigate that issue for the Boks. So maybe this timing is a lot better than when residency was just three years.

    I think it will undermine the strength in depth of all 6 main professional sides in SA though, with the Pro14 ones already having severe depth issues. The comparison of football in Argentina and Brazil is fair, but River Plate or Corninthians would never compete in a wealthy European league and I fear a SA SR franchise will never now compete with NZ teams, and possibly not Oz or Argentina in a couple of years. The Lions from the past two seasons (and hopefully the Sharks this year) might be the high watermark until the Oz and NZ unions have to follow suit.

    The Boks will now also be drawn from players who are overworked by European leagues and who play in very different styles (primarily French based ones). We desperately some kind of rule limiting squad sizes in the main European leagues so they don't go padding out their squads with "cheap" SH players to keep their benches warm.

    From my perspective it's not something to celebrate. It is a faintly desperate move, but one that may be replicated throughout the SH and even in Scotland, Italy and Wales. I do wonder if the SR TV money projections have informed this decision and left the SARU with little option, but if that was the case I'd have thought the Jaguares would have been the first to do this.
     
  17. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    As always, so negative in your approach.

    The 30-cap rule:
    This was the dumbest idea SARU ever thought of in the first place, and while it was in the system, it was even undermined by players such as Jan Serfontein and Steven Kitshoff.

    But again, you're not reading between the lines. When scrapping the 30-cap rule, not only do you widen the pool for selecting players with less than 30 caps who have already played for the Springboks, but you also have the advantage of picking young players who haven't been capped yet, and might have gone abroad very early in their career, gotten the necessary experience and is now ready to both feature for the Springboks, but also might return to SA shores and play for a local side as there will be more rewards for him than in the past, should he be part of the development programme.

    Bigger rewards:
    The plan is not to prevent players from going abroad, but to rather have them either take up short temporary contracts like in Japan, get a financial boost, and then return and be part of the local strategic planning process. RG Snyman is a prime example of this.

    Invoking Section 9:
    This will help with player burnout, as the players will now be part of the squad, and whether they play or not during the international window, they'll be with the Springbok team, and not their domestic club/union. Look how well it worked last year between Sale Sharks and SA Rugby with regard to Faf De Klerk.

    Bottom Line:
    We've been talking about a change for years. It's not something that happened overnight, or as you put it, a desperation move. In fact, like the article states, we've been looking at a model since the sport went professional and on ways to curb the mass exodus.

    The people behind this system aren't idiots, they know that there are things that won't/can't change, and they can't prevent players from leaving SA. All they are trying to do is to be more competitive and try and keep more players in SA and represent the Springboks.
     
  18. Bruce_ma_goose

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    Well these TRF nominations for "most disillusioned poster" don't grow on trees. It takes dedication and commitment!

    Seriously though, its not anything I haven't said here about the Argentine union (last year when they briefly appeared to sanction selection of non-Jaguares players, I argued it would kill the Jaguares overnight). I don't want to see rugby struggle anywhere, or become a battle of 'haves' vs 'have nots' with only European leagues attracting international players, so fingers crossed your interpretation of likely events turns out to be accurate. It's just not how I personally see this going.
     
  19. mdaclarke

    mdaclarke Academy Player

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    Out of interest is there any chance of Jake White becoming Boks coach again after the world cup? He seems keen and has won it before in 2007. He would be the perfect fit.
     
  20. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    There is a possibility. But Jake doesn't play well with others, and while he was coach, there was a lot of issues between him and the administrators, the question would be if he's selected, would he and Rassie work well together, as Rassie will be his boss.

    It's actually a good question, as there are a few candidates who might put their hand up for the job, and my guess is that Jake might not be as high up the pecking order as others such as Johann Ackerman, Swys De Bruin, Johan van Graan etc.
     
  21. Bruce_ma_goose

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    This is an article published just now on the topic that is very much in step with my own interpretation. It calls the move to scrap the 30 cap rule "desperate", points out there may be an element of self preservation about it for Rassie and raises concerns about the consequences for the SA Super Rugby sides.

    https://www.planetrugby.com/news/loose-pass-south-africa-ring-fencing-and-nico-lee/

    I think I'll sue Planet Rugby for plagiarism. Know a good lawyer Heineken? :p
     
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