Springbok EOTY Tour Squad

[SomeOke]

34 Players:
Props
Coenie Oosthuizen (prop, 28 years, Sharks), 29 caps
Tendai Mtawarira (prop, 32 years, Sharks), 95 caps
Trevor Nyakane (prop, 28 years, Blue Bulls), 34 caps
Steven Kitshoff (prop 25 years, Western Province), 19 caps
Ruan Dreyer (prop, 26 years, Golden Lions), 4 caps
Wilco Louw (prop, 23 years, Western Province), 1 cap

Hookers
Malcolm Marx (hooker, 23 years, Golden Lions), 11 caps
Bongi Mbonambi (hooker, 27 years, Western Province), 11 caps
Chiliboy Ralepelle (hooker, 31 years, Sharks), 22 caps

Locks
Eben Etzebeth (lock, 26 years, Western Province), 63 caps
Lood de Jager (lock, 25 years, Blue Bulls), 32 caps
Pieter-Steph du Toit (lock/flank, 25 years, Western Province), 29 caps
Franco Mostert (lock, 26 years, Lions/Ricoh Black Rams, Japan), 15 caps

Flanks
Francois Louw (loose forward, 32 years, Bath, England), 54 caps
Siya Kolisi (flank, 26 years, Western Province), 25 caps
Jean-Luc du Preez (loose forward, 22 years, Sharks), 10 caps
Dan du Preez (No 8, 22 years, Sharks), 0 caps
Oupa Mohojé (flank, 27 years, Free State Cheetahs), 17 caps
Uzair Cassiem (flank, 26 years, Cheetahs), 6 caps

Scrumhalves
Ross Cronjé (scrumhalf, 27 years, Golden Lions), 6 caps
Rudy Paige (scrumhalf, 28 years, Blue Bulls), 11 caps
Louis Schreuder (scrumhalf, 27 years, Sharks), 0 caps

Fly-Halves
Elton Jantjies (flyhalf, 27 years, Lions/ NTT Shining Arcs, Japan), 20 caps
Handré Pollard (flyhalf, 23 years, Blue Bulls), 22 caps
Curwin Bosch (flyhalf, 20 years, Sharks), 1 cap

Centres
Damian de Allende (centre, 27 years, Western Province), 27 caps
Jesse Kriel (centre, 23 years, Blue Bulls), 25 caps
Francois Venter (centre, 26 years, Free State Cheetahs), 3 caps
Lukhanyo Am (centre, 23 years, Sharks), 0 caps

Wings
Dillyn Leyds (wing, 25 years, Western Province), 5 caps
Courtnall Skosan (wing, 26 years, Golden Lions), 9 caps
Raymond Rhule (wing, 24 years, Free State Cheetahs), 7 caps

Fullbacks
Andries Coetzee (fullback, 26 years, Golden Lions), 9 caps
Warrick Gelant (fullback, 22 years, Blue Bulls), 0 caps


Pretty good squad all in all, can't think of too many people who missed out who deserve a spot other than Rohan Janse van Rensberg, Combrink and Rob du Preez can probably feel a little aggrieved to.

Worth noting the JldP is probably out for the tour being injured in yesterday's game so we will likely have another loose forward coming in. I'd like to see Kwagga but I think we're more likely to see Carr.

Jan Serfontein also asked to not be considered as he wants to settle in at his French club, he has 30 caps now so it's not that much of a big deal.

Gelant/Am/Dan du Preez/Schreuder are the players on 0 caps, all probably deserved. Schreuder is pretty average but so are basically all our scrumhalf options, hopefully we'll see them get a run especially Gelant!

I specifically think our tight five is getting really strong. Beast and Coenie have both been good this year and their back ups (Kitsoff and Wilcow Louw) are probably even better. We need another hooker (or Bongi needs to learn how to throw) but otherwise looking good. Our Locks are good but have been good for a while.

Loosie's looking a little less rosie especially with injuries to JlDP and Kriel.

The backline looks better squad wise but I still think we need to shuffle it a little, definitely need to see some other combinations, should be a good time to do it.

Edit:
Schedule for those wondering:
November 2017
11 Ireland v South Africa Aviva Stadium, Dublin 19:30
18 France v South Africa Stade de France, Saint Denis 21:45
25 Italy v South Africa Stadio Euganeo, Padova 15:00
December 2017
2 Wales v South Africa Principality Stadium, Cardiff 16:30

 

[Big_Grumper]

Agree with your comments, particularly those players that have missed out.

What's the deal with Akker Van der Merwe? I think he's rated quite highly in the NH but not so much in SA?

 

[SomeOke]

Agree with your comments, particularly those players that have missed out.

What's the deal with Akker Van der Merwe? I think he's rated quite highly in the NH but not so much in SA?

Great ball carrier unfortunately playing behind Malcom Marx (who was pretty close to the best hooker in SR), also a little too similar to Malcom so sometimes the Lions play Robbie Coetzee ahead of him (who is more of a set piece hooker).
He's now off to the Sharks but I'm not sure he's going to get that much opportunity their either, since they already have Marais and Ralepelle. Basically hasn't really gotten the opportunity.

The cynic in me says quota's are somewhat involved as well, Bongi Mbonambi would have to put forward an embarrassing performance to get dropped.

 

[Big_Grumper]

Interesting. The few games I've seen him play (in Currie Cup and SR) he's shown to be very agile in the loose and possesses good speed. I'm surprised one of the NH teams - particularly the French - haven't snapped him up.

 

[Durbanite]

Good to see Am, Venter and Gelant. Our backline really needed them.

Don't think Rhule, Dreyer or DDA should be in the squad. Rhule is at least understandable considering Nkosi's injury but DDA should've made way for RjvR for this EOYT and I'm still angry at Dreyer for scrumming like a chop, seems unlikely to me he will play, strange to include him imo.

Think Willemse should've definitely been in the squad, he reminds me of an Aussie flyer like Beale or Folau, would have him over Rhule any day of the week.

Curwin is a good bet if we need to play off the boot and he can be a deadly runner if given adequate space but his defence is below par and he tends to break or dart and isolate himself sometimes. I think Coetzee isn't the right 15, our 9s are killing us with their useless up and unders and EJ is seemingly always under a lot of pressure when he has to kick so our 15 needs to be really competent on the boot imo doubly so if we play specialist wings. Again, very good move to have Gelant in the squad

Was expecting a change in the forwards after JldP was injured but it seems like they're banking on him being back on the field soon, perhaps Dan will finally get a full game or two.

A very good team though! Pretty close to what was expected, although a bit disappointed in a lack of experimentation in some areas, nothing to stop AC from going the super safe route and leaving out the debutants and such but obviously he wants to win games.

 

[SomeOke]

Hopefully Dreyer is the third choice tighthead and we don't see much of him, but agree that he's not up to the scrimmaging aspect he gave away plenty of penalties in SR too so clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with his technique.
Rhule isn't great but neither are our other wing options unfortunately, I like Nkosi but he might be too young and he's also injured.

I like Willemse too but I still think he's finding his identity a bit, he's only 19 after all and his poles kicking is pretty woeful. Not even sure 10 is his best position, I kind of like the idea of playing him at 12, where he could play a "beale-like" role for us, just distributing and utilizing his elusive running, he's probably not well rounded enough at this stage to be an international 10.

I actually think Coetzee is alright but I'm not sure he's world class, I don't think he's bad but I do think we can probably do better.

Agreed about the up and unders, I don't have a problem with them but our back three isn't any better than any other teams under the high ball. In fact players like Folau and Smith are considerably better so I don't know why we insist on trying to contest an area of the game that we don't have the personnel for both from the kicking standpoint and the contesting standpoint.

As for DDA he remains bae, and the bestest player ever. Anyone who disagrees is wrong and I'm definitely not biased. In all seriousness I do think he could be great again, he's been stuck in this cycle of; injured -> rushed into the team -> injured, for a while now, I just want him to get some extended game time. He was largely blamed for being bad in a backline where absolutely no-one looked good.

For me how good/bad this season was depends on the tour. We are very firmly in "mediocre season" territory. If we lose 2 or more games this tour, it's a bad season. If we win 3 it's acceptable and if we win all four I'd upgrade us to "successful" season.

 

[User1245]

I agree with pretty much everything you guys mention regarding selection. Loose forwards are a bit shaky. Good to see Dan there. All the potential debutants deserve to be there. Whether they run on is another thing. Have seen plenty youngsters travel to Europe and never got a sniff. Rhule travelled twice before and I'm sure this is not Schreuder's first tour either.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The squad is pretty much what we expected. Still don't understand why Rohan is being overlooked.

JLDP will most probably be withdrawn if he doesn't recover in time, and I hope that Kwagga Smith is then included in the squad.

Ruan Combrink had a successful shoulder operation just a week ago, so it's understandable that he won't make the cut.

Very happy to see Gelant in there. I hope he gets a start, as he would give our backline more x-factor on attack.

Only thing that bothers me is the 2 pedestrians we are taking with us as back-up hookers. I think it's now clear as day, that they are both just there to fill the quota numbers.

 

[SomeOke]

I agree about our back up hookers being passengers and clearly AC agrees, I mean Mbonambi has 11 caps and he must have played less than 11 minutes total. It's so obvious AC has no faith in him it's a little embarrassing.
That said I do feel like their aren't that many options, even if you take quota's out of it. I feel like there 's a big jump between Marx and our second best hooker, it might as well be Mbonambi who's a good scrummager and a good ball runner, just can't throw.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I agree about our back up hookers being passengers and clearly AC agrees, I mean Mbonambi has 11 caps and he must have played less than 11 minutes total. It's so obvious AC has no faith in him it's a little embarrassing.
That said I do feel like their aren't that many options, even if you take quota's out of it. I feel like there 's a big jump between Marx and our second best hooker, it might as well be Mbonambi who's a good scrummager and a good ball runner, just can't throw.

Well Bismarck is injured, so we can't call on him, even though he's eligible to play for the Boks.

If we look at Chilliboy, then surely Franco Marais and Akker v/d Merwe should also be considered. Marais has been Rob Du Preez's first choice hooker this year, with Chilliboy and Akker doing the bench role.

As for Bongi. He's probably the luckiest tourist in the world. He has played very little matches, but sees the world for free.

We might as well call on Schalk Brits to assist us.

 

[George Ford]

As for DDA he remains bae, and the bestest player ever. Anyone who disagrees is wrong and I'm definitely not biased. In all seriousness I do think he could be great again, he's been stuck in this cycle of; injured -> rushed into the team -> injured, for a while now, I just want him to get some extended game time. He was largely blamed for being bad in a backline where absolutely no-one looked good.

Good to see Am, Venter and Gelant. Our backline really needed them. Don't think Rhule, Dreyer or DDA should be in the squad. Rhule is at least understandable considering Nkosi's injury but DDA should've made way for RjvR for this EOYT.

DdA can be great again, and the Boks do need him more now that Serf is unavailable. But RjvR SHOULD'VE been selected as well. Instead AC opted for the other 3 centers who specializes in 13 and only chooses 1 specialist 12 in the form of a guy who currently wears the tag of losing the match for the Boks??

The cards have been laid in the selection. DdA will get that consistent start/run in the team on this tour (smh).

 

[SomeOke]

Yeah it's time for DDA to prove what he can do, no more excuses, clearly the Boks are moving away from just bashing it forward so it's time for DDA do show what he can do. Agreed RjvR should be there as he's world class, but what can you do.
Do be fair I think Venter can and has played 12 before, he's a perfectly capable player in both positions imo.

Jesse Kriel is just an example of a perfect player on paper, with speed and power, just failing to make good decisions on both attack and defense. Personally I'm not sure 13 is his best position, but with Gelant at the Bulls I don't see that changing in the near future.

I'm not 100% sold on Am either but I really hope it does work out, another quality black player in the side who's there on merit would be great. I just feel like he's the type of player who looks really good with the ball but doesn't really translate it into line-breaks, which is quite important for a good 13.

 

[George Ford]

Yeah it's time for DDA to prove what he can do, no more excuses, clearly the Boks are moving away from just bashing it forward so it's time for DDA do show what he can do. Agreed RjvR should be there as he's world class, but what can you do.
Do be fair I think Venter can and has played 12 before, he's a perfectly capable player in both positions imo.

Jesse Kriel is just an example of a perfect player on paper, with speed and power, just failing to make good decisions on both attack and defense. Personally I'm not sure 13 is his best position, but with Gelant at the Bulls I don't see that changing in the near future.

I'm not 100% sold on Am either but I really hope it does work out, another quality black player in the side who's there on merit would be great. I just feel like he's the type of player who looks really good with the ball but doesn't really translate it into line-breaks, which is quite important for a good 13.

I was alluding to AC's bias - or more sentimental in giving 2nd chances.

Before the start of the international season, I was advocating for DdA & Kriel to be center pairing in an attempt for them to recapture the riveting form they hit as a combination just coming out the blocks in 2015.

Then DdA got injured for the 1st French test and Serf had his best season for the Boks.

Good comment on Kriel, although I think 13 is actually his best position and I believe with a flyhalf who plays to the gainline more flat we will see his true potential as an outside back. **EJ reservations please refer to relevant thread.

Am is def there on merit, though I don't think he will get any game time on this tour.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

34 Players:
Props
Coenie Oosthuizen (prop, 28 years, Sharks), 29 caps
Happy to see he will be fit. Between him and Louw we are covered at 3. Still feel Koch was hard done by and we shouldn't forget Malherbe.
Tendai Mtawarira (prop, 32 years, Sharks), 95 caps
TBF he has been solid in 2017 but will he make 2019? I for one would like Kitshoff to go ahead as the encumbant and then give the lot of Nyakane more workload and Nche and Du Toit both exposure to see they go. I predict Du Toit will take to test rugby like a duck to water.
Trevor Nyakane (prop, 28 years, Blue Bulls), 34 caps
Steven Kitshoff (prop 25 years, Western Province), 19 caps
Ruan Dreyer (prop, 26 years, Golden Lions), 4 caps
I take it Malherbe is still unfit and we are going ahead hard and fast on the 30 cap rule re Koch?
Wilco Louw (prop, 23 years, Western Province), 1 cap

Hookers
Malcolm Marx (hooker, 23 years, Golden Lions), 11 caps
Bongi Mbonambi (hooker, 27 years, Western Province), 11 caps
Chiliboy Ralepelle (hooker, 31 years, Sharks), 22 caps
Happy enough with the main contenders. Is Ralepelle really our 3rd best choice though? Du Toit and Akker van der Merwe might add more off of the bench IMO. I think its fine that we look beyond the likes of Du Plessis and Brits at this stage. Ashley Johnson?

Locks
Eben Etzebeth (lock, 26 years, Western Province), 63 caps
Lood de Jager (lock, 25 years, Blue Bulls), 32 caps
Pieter-Steph du Toit (lock/flank, 25 years, Western Province), 29 caps
Franco Mostert (lock, 26 years, Lions/Ricoh Black Rams, Japan), 15 caps
I'm happy with this. 4 solid options keeping each other on their toes. I think Etzebeth will be SA's top capped player the day he retires God willing he keeps fit.

Flanks
Francois Louw (loose forward, 32 years, Bath, England), 54 caps
Siya Kolisi (flank, 26 years, Western Province), 25 caps
Jean-Luc du Preez (loose forward, 22 years, Sharks), 10 caps
Dan du Preez (No 8, 22 years, Sharks), 0 caps
Oupa Mohojé (flank, 27 years, Free State Cheetahs), 17 caps
Uzair Cassiem (flank, 26 years, Cheetahs), 6 caps
I'm happy with Kolisi and Du Preez as our blindside options. No real openside or 8 though... sheesh, I am scared about the balance in our backrow. If it weren't for the fact that our tight five are all capable over the ruck we'd be in a lot of trouble here. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if one of Smith, Cloete or Kriel were there at 6. Forgetting Coetzee since he is at 29 caps and serially injured in any case. But the other three also all unavailable? And where is Carr at 8? He has been a stand out for WP over these last few weeks in pressure games coming to the fore as a real leader and busy and skillful at the back of the scrum. MVP in the Currie Cup winning side at 8 and already capped so I don't get why we prefer to play Cassiem and/or Mohoje out of position at 8. Also, I am not Dan du Preez's biggest fan. We have enough in the pack of what he offers. A backrow of Kolisi, Smith and Carr would bring a level of ball skill to our backrow we havn't had yet. With Kriel, Whiteley and JL du Preez. Carr is also much more similar to Whiteley as a player so I'd imagine it would make contingency planning easier at 8. Louw is a proven player but a bit off the pace ATM IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I see Ruan Botha has been called up in place of Jean-Luc Du Preez.

So that would mean that PSDT will be used more as a loose forward than a lock.

Which makes me think that AC will keep the loose forwards the same as they were against the All Blacks...

 

[SomeOke]

Yeah our loose trio has taken a bit of a beating. Whiteley/Kriel/Vermulen/Coetzee/JLDP all better than anyone we have other than perhaps Siya (who is good at different things).

I still don't like PSDT at 7, but maybe it's a case of the drop in quality is so severe that it might be worthwhile.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Scrumhalves
Ross Cronjé (scrumhalf, 27 years, Golden Lions), 6 caps
Rudy Paige (scrumhalf, 28 years, Blue Bulls), 11 caps
Louis Schreuder (scrumhalf, 27 years, Sharks), 0 caps
TBH we don't have any stand outs ATM. We have a plethora of 9s who are all on about the same level even though they have varying strengths and weaknesses. I feel the list could've had those three or any combination of those alongside Hougaard, Pienaar, De Klerk, Reinach, Vermaak, Duvenhage, Venter and Van Zyl and I'd feel the exact same way about it. IE... meh x 3.

Fly-Halves
Elton Jantjies (flyhalf, 27 years, Lions/ NTT Shining Arcs, Japan), 20 caps
Handré Pollard (flyhalf, 23 years, Blue Bulls), 22 caps
Curwin Bosch (flyhalf, 20 years, Sharks), 1 cap
Here I feel almost as underwhelmed as I did at 9. Don't get me wrong I have a lot of time for all these players. I just question Bosch's inclusion at this stage. I do rate him as a talent going forward but don't see him carrying us in 2019. And besides that I feel he has stern, oh so very stern competition in the SA 10 jersey post 2019 in Damian Willemse, very composed Rob du Preez and Pollard if Pollard could manage to stay fit and get back to his former form. Am I being biased? I wonder whether Bosch would play at 10 if Rob du Preez were to move to the Sharks as seems likely.. I almost doubt it. Pollard's issue is he hasn't played rugby in 2 years. He is essentially starting from scratch and can only be seen as an unknown entity though I am hopeful. Jantjies has had a lot of time now and TBH he has gone better in general than what I have expected I have to concede. In the same breath I can't help shrugging the idea that he seems to buckle under pressure. Not sure whether this is maybe due to a different playing environment or even whether its just my perception being off. Anyway, I am not overly confident and feel teh same way as I do over our options at 9. We have a raft of quality 10s but all of them have an asterisk next to their names. You can add Lambie and Goosen to the ones I mentioned though they are probably both out of the race in any case.

Centres
Damian de Allende (centre, 27 years, Western Province), 27 caps
Jesse Kriel (centre, 23 years, Blue Bulls), 25 caps
Francois Venter (centre, 26 years, Free State Cheetahs), 3 caps
Lukhanyo Am (centre, 23 years, Sharks), 0 caps
So we have DDA at 12 and 3 players to contend for the #13 jersey with Jan Serfontein taking a break of test rugby for the NH Autumn. I can't split those 3 actually. I feel Kriel has the inside track ITO continuation but personally I would actually like one of the others to get a chance. At the end of the day though I would still like to see 12)RJvR, 13)Serfontein get an extended run. Much like our situation at 9 and 10 our center berths are also up i the air. DDA hasn't played SR and has had limited time at test level this year. I see him as lucky for being called up in the first place but lest see how it goes I suppose. Harold Vorster and Andre Esterhuizen are out of action at an untimely time. I'm not saying they should be there necessarily but feel they have at least as much a claim to be there than what DDA at least has if not more.

Wings
Dillyn Leyds (wing, 25 years, Western Province), 5 caps
Courtnall Skosan (wing, 26 years, Golden Lions), 9 caps
Raymond Rhule (wing, 24 years, Free State Cheetahs), 7 caps
Should read 14 Combrinck, 11 Mapimpi and Leyds IMO.

Fullbacks
Andries Coetzee (fullback, 26 years, Golden Lions), 9 caps
Warrick Gelant (fullback, 22 years, Blue Bulls), 0 caps
Happy enough with this. Hope Gelant has a good go as the jersey doesn't belong to Coetzee IMO. We have back up in the squad in Leyds, Kriel and if he were to get a go Combrinck.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I see Ruan Botha has been called up in place of Jean-Luc Du Preez.

So that would mean that PSDT will be used more as a loose forward than a lock.

Which makes me think that AC will keep the loose forwards the same as they were against the All Blacks...

Yeah our loose trio has taken a bit of a beating. Whiteley/Kriel/Vermulen/Coetzee/JLDP all better than anyone we have other than perhaps Siya (who is good at different things).

I still don't like PSDT at 7, but maybe it's a case of the drop in quality is so severe that it might be worthwhile.

Its telling that they called up a lock. So PSDT at flank and De Jager/Mostert at 5/19. All the injuries in the backrow considered it could be worse I suppose. Pity Whiteley and Kriel aren't fit. If I remember correctly the reports way back when suggested they should be but oh, well.

I still feel Carr can feel hard done by but AC is never gonna satisfy everyone so I'm not going to carry on further than what I've already put here.

Good luck, boys! If we can carry on with the intensity and intent shown in our last match that'd make me happy enough.

 

[will311293]

What are the chances Carr will be called up ? We have only just got hold of him!

realise someone mentioned Ashley Johnson earlier on to play Hooker. He's okay at hooker but arrows aren't quite there yet and Brits is on fire this season.

 

[SomeOke]

What are the chances Carr will be called up ? We have only just got hold of him!

realise someone mentioned Ashley Johnson earlier on to play Hooker. He's okay at hooker but arrows aren't quite there yet and Brits is on fire this season.

Well for now you're safe, since Ruan Botha was called up.
Additional injuries would have to happen and then Carr would have to be first choice, and also Carr would have to be available which he might not be if he took this loan deal.