Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2007' started by BOKean, Jul 7, 2007.
i would pick Butch with Frans as backup
Andre Pretorius as 1st-choice. Got the running game- drift off of him early at your peril. This creates a little more time and space for those outside of him. Pretty good hands too, and a nicely educated boot also. And what he lacks in physicality on defense, he makes up with determination.
Butch James as backup- well everyone knows not to run into Butch`s channel, his defense is legendary. Also getting better and better with his distribution- look at De Villiers` 2 line-breaks in the SA-Aus opening tri-nations game. Both had as much to do with the angle ran by JDV, as with the split-second timing of the Butch pass. Problem is, Butchie`s kicking out of hand leaves a lot to be desired.
Frans Steyn`s got all the talent in the world, and will go on to be the 1st truly world-class flyhalf SA`s ever produced since King Henry Honiball, mark my words. But better to blood him off the bench, at either 12 or 15, for now. Still prone to moments of brain-freeze. Notice S14 final 2007, and last 5 minutes of SA-AB test in Durbs.
Peter Grant`s still a pup- one half-decent S14 campaign maketh not a Bok flyhalf. Lots of talent, especially glad to see he`s spent the off-season getting himself a kicking game, something missing last year, but he`s got time on his side. Maybe in a couple of years, but not yet.
And Liefling Hougaard`s way too one-dimentional for my liking. Great boot, excellent kicking out of hand- probably on a par with Wilko or Carter in that department- but there it ends. Lacks variety in his play, and will be ruthlessly exposed on the RWC stage, where he won`t have the luxury of a rampant Bulls pack winning him 60-70% possession all the time.
Butch as first choice and pretorius as back-up, Frans steyn is best at full back or wing for the moment till he gets more experiance in such a critical position as fly half!
I say start Butch at 10, with Pienaar as backup.
Pienaar would make a great 10. He can run, he can distribute, and he has the boot. Hell, you could have januarie on the bench to take the 9 in case butch goes down. Also, that would confuse the f*** out of any defense facing them. I think it would be cool to watch as well.
While I agree with BokMagic about James' boot, that doesn't mean that Pienaar/Steyn from 11/15 could kick for him in the box/pocket. Well, so long as Pienaar's box kicks were better than they were last night v. AUS.
i agree with pretorious at 10 because the springboks need someone who can spark their backline its almost game over when they fall behind by more than a try because they don't have the attack to break good defences.
how many games of rugby have you actually watched?
you cant have the winger or fullback running after the ruck incase a box kick is needed - they would get caught out of position every time... then you would need an extra fullback to cover for them. it just doesnt work - we have 2 halfbacks who can box kick, distribute and create opportunities. we dont need wingers playing halfback
how many games of rugby have you actually watched?
you cant have the winger or fullback running after the ruck incase a box kick is needed - they would get caught out of position every time... then you would need an extra fullback to cover for them. it just doesnt work - we have 2 halfbacks who can box kick, distribute and create opportunities. we dont need wingers playing halfback [/b][/quote] percy kicks for butch all the time its just a matter of knowing when to bring him up.
Andre to start and Butch on the bench. Hougaard doesn't deserve to be there the way he's been playing, he can't feed his backline efficiently and stands deep back in the pocket far too often. Any one notice this against Australia? He stood at first receiver about 20m behind Pienaar, ridiculous IMO.
Also Pienaar is all class and should make the RWC team. I've heard talks about him not making the squad which is mind boggling. The bloke is definitely the Bok's best half back, maybe touch and go with Du Preez.
Hmmm, Pienaar as a backup 10? My 1st instinct tells me not to dick around with the guy`s natural position as a 9, but then I got to thinking about it a bit. What are the attributes that makes a good 10? IMO, the 4 most important criteria are:
1- Being a threat with ball in hand, so that the modern, well-organised defenses cannot drift off of you early. Certainly Pienaar`s got the pace and the step to be effective. In fact, have him at 1st receiver and you`ll probably use his elusive running to a greater extent.
2- Distribution, i.e. being able to put your backline away. As a regular scrumhalf, Pienaar`s certainly got the pass, to both sides. Has the ability to hit his target off of either hand, and also has the understanding to put people into the gap through timing of the pass.
3- Kicking game- this is the 1 area where Pienaar has probably improved most during the off-season. Has the ability to kick well off both feet, something that only really Pretorius is able to do of the current crop of SA flyhalves. Certainly better than Grant, James or even Steyn when it comes to general kicking out of hand.
4- Defense- probably Pienaar`s biggest strength. These days, weaker defensive 10`s like Hougaard or Pretorius will be relentlessly tested by the opposition, putting big, strong ball-carriers into their channel all the time. This certainly won`t bother Pienaar, as he`s used to making the tackles around the fringes of the scrums or rucks, normally with a big, strong no8 picking up from the base.
So yeah, I actually really rate that idea of yours American Bok, with Pienaar as a potential backup 10. Pity it wasn`t tried at either Currie Cup or S14 level.
I read somewhere that someone thought Fourie Du Preez would make an excellent #10, I believe it was one of the opinion colums on teh Supersport website (*the ones Dan Retief and the guys usually write*).
what do think about that idea though ?
I actually get that honnibol feeling from Pienaar to tell you the truth, I dunno why though, maybe it's just his look.
I actually also get the idea that Pienaar could indeed become something like a 2nd Honiball if given the chance at 10. Fourie Du Preez- geez I don`t know. IMO he`s one of the best, if not the best, decision-making scrumhalves in world rugby at present. I think Fourie`s just a completely natural scrumhalf. As opposed to Pienaar, even though he`s a damn good scrummie, I kinda share Jake White`s view that he`s an even better footballer than he is a 9.
OK, so it`s way too late to start experimenting for the RWC, and I`d still play it safe(ish) with Pretorius and James as the no1 and 2. But how does this grab you for the inside back division for the 1st test after we win (hopefully!) the RWC final? 9- Du Preez, 10- Pienaar, 12- Steyn?
is steyn going to be able to take the ball to the line and defense is pretty important at 12 as well. devilliers isn't disappearing after the world cup?
Howzit Spider- no, De Villiers isn`t going anywhere after the World Cup. But I just get the idea that Steyn can be a really good 12 if given the chance. Certainly nothing wrong with either Steyn`s defense or his physicality. Certainly on a par at least with De Villiers. But he`s a better distributor IMO. And more of a game-breaker too.
Would put Steyn in at Flyhalf.
id ideally like to have Percy at 10, thus allowing Willemse to got to FB and Habana & Paulse on the wings...
Jake messed up by not giving Grant more gametime on the tour. He is an excellent backup for Butch and hopefully he will be in the squad from next year... even with the 10 black player quota... SARU you losers!!
andre is South Africas best flyhalf but if he isnt fit before the world cup south africa have a problem butch is SA second option
you could stick du preez out there at 10 he's got the pace and the pass and the decision making but at the moment i believe whole heartedly you have to play the man at scrumhalf he's probably the best in the world at the moment, bring back derrick hougaard :lol:
Is andre petorius injured? i haven't seen him in the Boks jersey this year.
I think Butch is a def starter, he can get really aggressive and wear down the opposition with his physical presence, and i'd have pretorius off the bench, coz he'll definitely run rings around tired players!
as much as i like Derrick hougaard, he just didn't do much to lead or attack the opposition in his 2 starts. But if he makes it it'll be algood, because he'll start against Samoa and Lima will be there haha round 2
It has to be Butch James, backup I am not to sure like to say Steyn but might be called bias as I am a Shark supporter. But Butch is by far the better fly half in SA at the momemt. Go BOKKE !!!! can't wait for WC to start.
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