Springboks post-isolation XV

[sharkfan]

I thought I will put together my best 15 Springboks after re-admission back in 1992.
So here goes:
15. Andre Joubert
14. Chester Williams
13. Jaque Fourie
12. Jean De Villiers
11. Bryan Habana
10. Henry Honiball
9. Joost vd Westhuizen
8. Duane Vermeulen
7. Andre Venter
6. Schalk Burger
5. Victor Matfield
4. Bakkies Botha
3. Cobus Visagie
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
1. Os Du Randt

I didn't include Naas Botha and Danie Gerber as they were already on their way out after the Boks came back. You can agree disagree and select your own XV. Understandably no-one of the current bunch made the team, maybe Eben Etzebeth and Malcolm Marx on the bench.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I only really clicked onto this thread to see if Honiball would get in at 10 - I've always been a massive fan of his and believe he was underrated at the time and has been too quickly forgotten, so kudos on this pick. Same for Cobus Visagie.

It's very rare I struggle to find picks to quibble about in these kind of posts, but this nails it as closely as any I've seen. I'll be interested to see other Bokke / SH opinions.

I'm a bit old school with locks, so I like the footballer / hard man combination, so can't fault your choice, particularly given how effectively they operated together for so long. If this side was going to play today (i.e. under current laws) I would put Etzebeth in for Botha - it's not like Etzebeth is small or afraid to put himself about and gives you a lot more around the park. Rather like England's embarrassment of riches in the second row department, it's crazy the Mark Andrews' name doesn't feature, he'd be my fourth choice I suppose.

Number eight strikes me as a bit of a weak pick, Vermeulen was outstanding for a season or two, but never really kicked on, but the same goes for anyone else I can think of (Skinstad and Teichmann the main two) and none were as good at their best.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Man, you are spot-on with most of your picks. But I wouldn't pick the following guys:

14. Chester Williams - He wasn't really such a good winger IMHO. He was in the same bracket for as Brent Russel, Pieter Rossouw and Dean Hall
3. Cobus Visagie - Surely he wasn't better than Richard Bands?

 

[unrated]

Good list, I would try and work Percy Montgomery into that list considering he helped win us a world cup and hold many records for the Springboks. Including all time top points scorer.

 

[sharkfan]

Man, you are spot-on with most of your picks. But I wouldn't pick the following guys:

14. Chester Williams - He wasn't really such a good winger IMHO. He was in the same bracket for as Brent Russel, Pieter Rossouw and Dean Hall
3. Cobus Visagie - Surely he wasn't better than Richard Bands?

Who would you put in for Chester? JPP?

 

[sharkfan]

Good list, I would try and work Percy Montgomery into that list considering he won helped win us a world cup and hold many records for the Springboks. Including all time top points scorer.

Percy was a bit erratic and made a lot of silly errors in play, especially in his early years. His defense also was suspect at times. But still a close second to Juba for his accurate boot.

 

[George Ford]

Good list, I would try and work Percy Montgomery into that list considering he helped win us a world cup and hold many records for the Springboks. Including all time top points scorer.

True. Basically a Springbok legend. Although, Jouba is legend for playing with an injured thumb in that '95 final.

I only really clicked onto this thread to see if Honiball would get in at 10 - I've always been a massive fan of his and believe he was underrated at the time and has been too quickly forgotten, so kudos on this pick.

Joel Stransky?

Who would you put in for Chester? JPP?

Yes.

 

[RedruthRFC]

3. Cobus Visagie - Surely he wasn't better than Richard Bands?

At the time I had no way of watching SH rugby, so barely would have seen him play and to be honest can't remember the name, but having had a quick Google, it's hard to imagine a player who only won 11 caps and was second choice during the only World Cup he made outstripping one who was picked for the team of the tournament at the 1999 World Cup.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Joel Stransky?

He's the obvious choice and certainly the sentimental one given his heroics in 1995. My comment is just a reflection of how highly I rated Honiball.

 

[TRF_heineken]

At the time I had no way of watching SH rugby, so barely would have seen him play and to be honest can't remember the name, but having had a quick Google, it's hard to imagine a player who only won 11 caps and was second choice during the only World Cup he made outstripping one who was picked for the team of the tournament at the 1999 World Cup.

Wait, so you don't know who he is?? So I guess you've never seen this try from him against the All Blacks. Sorry about the picture quality:

 

[RedruthRFC]

Wait, so you don't know who he is?? So I guess you've never seen this try from him against the All Blacks. Sorry about the picture quality:

Thanks, I read about it when I Googled him, but hadn't seen it. I imagine Carlos Spencer still has nightmares!

 

[sharkfan]

True. Basically a Springbok legend. Although, Jouba is legend for playing with an injured thumb in that '95 final.



Joel Stransky?



Yes.

Joel Stransky won us the world cup in 1995 with that drop goal, and had a good world cup, but 'Lem' was the flyhalf when he Boks went on their unbeaten run of 17 successive victories under Nick Mallet. The guy could kick well, pass well and had an eye for the gap, and best of all he could tackle the crap out of the opposition. Stransky would be on the bench. Handre Pollard in a way reminds me of Honiball.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Surprised at no mention of Francois Pienaar.

Would have to agree with Teichmann and Percy Montgomery's inclusion - saw them play for Newport a few times and both outstanding players.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Surprised at no mention of Francois Pienaar.

Pienaar would be a massively sentimental shout IMO. I really don't how you can make an argument for him ahead of Burger, but by all means have a go!

Would have to agree with Teichmann and Percy Montgomery's inclusion - saw them play for Newport a few times and both outstanding players.

Both of these come down to how much importance you place on longevity as far as I'm concerned. Playing at their best, I would stick with OP's picks, but yours have achieved more by virtue of winning more caps.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

I don't really intend to make any argument for Francois Pienaar, it was more a comment than anything.

Sentimental - maybe, but he was a very good player and achieved the following:

• In 1995 he was voted Rugby Personality of the Year by Britain's Rugby Union Writers' Club, as well as Newsmaker of the Year in South Africa.
• In 2004 he was voted 50th in the Top 100 Great South Africans.
• In 2005 he was inducted into the International Rugby Hall of Fame.
• On 24 October 2011, he was inducted into the IRB Hall of Fame.

So definitely no slouch of a player, but maybe his most significant moment is that moment exchanged with Nelson Mandela and immortalised in Invictus.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I'm not denying that he was a very good player, just saying that he wasn't as good as Burger by a significant margin. Those achievements don't do much to sway me - the win in 1995 and the circumstances surrounding it must have played no small part in all of them and the last two are now one in the same. My memory of the 1995 RWC (rugby wise) is that Lomu was the star of the tournament and Kronfeld the outstanding open-side. I don't ever recall Pienaar ever being talked about as a standout in his position. Something that is certainly not true of Burger and I would argue Brussow too (although he's another who wasn't on top of his game for that long).

 

[smartcooky]

IMO, not having Gary Teichmann in a "post isolation" team is a serious oversight.

 

[sharkfan]

Updated team with one change. Lets put Gary Teichmann in. Captain of the world record setting Springboks in the late 90's and first time Tri-Nations champs. Thormeulen in his peak was world class and hopefully he will return to play for the Boks.
15. Andre Joubert
14. Chester Williams
13. Jaque Fourie
12. Jean De Villiers
11. Bryan Habana
10. Henry Honiball
9. Joost vd Westhuizen
8. Gary Teichmann
7. Andre Venter
6. Schalk Burger
5. Victor Matfield
4. Bakkies Botha
3. Cobus Visagie
2. Bismarck Du Plessis
1. Os Du Randt

 

[George Ford]

Oh and.. Joost at 9 is by no means a sentimental inclusion - I'm sure all of everybody who seen him play would agree. However, I'm equally as sure many won't disagree with me if I preferred to go with FdP at 9. The latter is, for me, the best rugby player South Africa has produced post-isolation, if not ever. **Drops mic**

 

[TRF_heineken]

Oh and.. Joost at 9 is by no means a sentimental inclusion - I'm sure all of everybody who seen him play would agree. However, I'm equally as sure many won't disagree with me if I preferred to go with FdP at 9. The latter is, for me, the best rugby player South Africa has produced post-isolation, if not ever. **Drops mic**

It's a tough call. It's 50/50 for me between Fourie and Joost. I think Joost would get my nod though as he in a small way, assisted Fourie in becoming the player that Fourie was, whereas Joost didn't have that kind of mentorship before him.

Just on the topic of Francois Pienaar. He wouldn't even get my nod if I had to pick a player from the same 95 world cup team. Ruben Kruger was by a long mile a much better player and flanker than Francois.