SR power rankings

[TRF_stormer2010]

I like the idea of a column tracking the relative 'power rankings' of teams in the cmpetition and its something to dwell on while we wait on line-ups for week 7 and that's why I read these sorts of articles;

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/78560906/super-rugby-power-rankings--week-6

1 Chiefs
2 Crusaders
3 Highlanders
4 Rebels
5 Bulls
6 Lions
7 Brumbies
8 Blues
9 Stormers
10 Waratahs
11 Kings
12 Force
13 Jaguares
14 Hurricanes
15 Cheetahs
16 Sharks
17 Reds
18 Sunwolves

But I cringe at their placements and wouldn't even know where to properly start! It seems like they penalise a team for having a bye (but inconsistently so) and attach huge value to any sort of win no matter the context; so the Sharks went down to an in-form Crusaders team 2nd oon their rankings and had a bye while the Kings narrowly beat their last placed Sunwolves at the death and all of a sudden the Kings who have shipped the most points in the comp to date are 5 places higher than a team that prior to their last outing was unbeaten? C'mon!?

Hurricanes at 14? Really? Rebels, Bulls, Brumbies and Blues all above the Stormers? Two of those teams we've beaten well already.

So what does your own rankings look like- what are you using to determine them?

Let me have a go:

1 Chiefs
2 Crusaders

3 Highlanders
4 Stormers
5 Lions
6 Sharks
7 Brumbies
8 Hurricanes

9 Bulls
10 Rebels
11 Blues
12 Jaguares
13 Waratahs
14 Reds

15 Cheetahs
16 Force
17 Sunwolves
18 Kings - I know they beat the Sunwolves but I still see the 'Wolves as the stronger team.

My list is mostly based on what I feel the teams offer ATM but also to a degree a reflection of what I see their position as being; in other words I've opted between those teams I felt are close enough ITO 'power' to place the team with the better prospects higher. Thoughts?

 

[saulan]

1 Chiefs
2 Crusaders
3 Highlanders
4 Rebels
5 Bulls
6 Lions
7 Brumbies
8 Blues
9 Stormers
10 Waratahs
11 Kings
12 Force
13 Jaguares
14 Hurricanes
15 Cheetahs
16 Sharks
17 Reds
18 Sunwolves

That list is horrendous. The Kings are wooden spoon contenders and everyone is aware of that. I agree that I would also put them in last place. I back the Sunwolves to win the return game between the two teams when they play at home. The power rankings will be a little bit tricky because some teams just don't play each other and have very limited crossover, but I will have a go.

1 Chiefs

2 Highlanders
3 Stormers
4 Crusaders

5 Hurricanes
6 Lions

7 Sharks
8 Brumbies
9 Jaguares
10 Bulls

11 Blues
12 Rebels

13 Force
14 Cheetahs
15 Waratahs
16 Reds
17 Sunwolves
18 Kings

I know the Blues beat the Jaguares, but I honestly feel like the poor Jaguares team haven't properly clicked yet, currently lack self esteem and their potential is quite high. I am quite happy the Stormers played them early on in the season.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

That list is horrendous. The Kings are wooden spoon contenders and everyone is aware of that. I agree that I would also put them in last place. I back the Sunwolves to win the return game between the two teams when they play at home. The power rankings will be a little bit tricky because some teams just don't play each other and have very limited crossover, but I will have a go.

1 Chiefs

2 Highlanders
3 Stormers
4 Crusaders

5 Hurricanes
6 Lions

7 Sharks
8 Brumbies
9 Jaguares
10 Bulls

11 Blues
12 Rebels

13 Force
14 Cheetahs
15 Waratahs
16 Reds
17 Sunwolves
18 Kings

I know the Blues beat the Jaguares, but I honestly feel like the poor Jaguares team haven't properly clicked yet, currently lack self esteem and their potential is quite high. I am quite happy the Stormers played them early on in the season.

Funnily enough that's actually the whole point of power rankings. They're supposed to indicate who would win if two teams played each other, even if they'd never get the chance to due to being in different conferences.

My thoughts below:

S - Chiefs
A - Highlanders, Crusaders
B - Stormers, Brumbies
C - Hurricanes, Lions, Sharks
D - Waratahs, Blues, Bulls
E - Jaguares, Rebels
F - Cheetahs, Force
G - Reds, Sunwolves, Kings

Any teams within the same tier are basically on par with one another.

 

[0tago]

That list is horrendous. The Kings are wooden spoon contenders and everyone is aware of that. I agree that I would also put them in last place. I back the Sunwolves to win the return game between the two teams when they play at home. The power rankings will be a little bit tricky because some teams just don't play each other and have very limited crossover, but I will have a go.

1 Chiefs

2 Highlanders
3 Stormers
4 Crusaders

5 Hurricanes
6 Lions

7 Sharks
8 Brumbies
9 Jaguares
10 Bulls

11 Blues
12 Rebels

13 Force
14 Cheetahs
15 Waratahs
16 Reds
17 Sunwolves
18 Kings

I know the Blues beat the Jaguares, but I honestly feel like the poor Jaguares team haven't properly clicked yet, currently lack self esteem and their potential is quite high. I am quite happy the Stormers played them early on in the season.

That list is equally horrendous and how are the Cheetahs above the Tahs, The Cheetahs were lucky to only just beat the Sunwolves... And the Crusaders are better than the Stormers, the Crusaders went on tour and won vs the Sharks (who look terrible) who the Stormers lost at home to. You're probably right about the Jags, but that doesn't change the fact that they didn't beat the Blues so therefore you can't place them above the Blues who have also recorded 2 wins (one against defending champions) and a draw + came close vs last years finalists the Hurricanes, so you're list is definitely equally horrendous and bias.

1.Chiefs
2.Crusaders
3.Highlanders
4.Stormers
5.Brumbies
6.Hurricanes
7.Lions
8.Blues
9.Rebels
10.Sharks
11.Bulls
12.Waratahs
13.Jaguars
14.Force
15.Cheetahs
16.Reds
17.Kings
18.Sunwolves

 

[saulan]

That list is equally horrendous and how are the Cheetahs above the Tahs, The Cheetahs were lucky to only just beat the Sunwolves... And the Crusaders are better than the Stormers, the Crusaders went on tour and won vs the Sharks (who look terrible) who the Stormers lost at home to. You're probably right about the Jags, but that doesn't change the fact that they didn't beat the Blues so therefore you can't place them above the Blues who have also recorded 2 wins (one against defending champions) and a draw + came close vs last years finalists the Hurricanes, so you're list is definitely equally horrendous and bias.

1.Chiefs
2.Crusaders
3.Highlanders
4.Stormers
5.Brumbies
6.Hurricanes
7.Lions
8.Blues
9.Rebels
10.Sharks
11.Bulls
12.Waratahs
13.Jaguars
14.Force
15.Cheetahs
16.Reds
17.Kings
18.Sunwolves

Okay mate . I put the Crusaders, Stormers and Highlanders in the same pool because I think they would be games where the home team won. I don't believe that because team a beat team b and team b beat team c that team a will automatically beat team c. Both the Stomers Sharks game and the Crusaders Sharks games were close.

I have put the Cheetahs only one place above the Waratahs, but they are pretty much at the same level for me. Both have not impressed me and are underperforming to a large extent. I just am more disappointed in the Waratahs which is why I put them one position below.

I can place the Jags above the Blue because it is my opinion and my current view which of course may change going forward. It is based on what I have seen and how I perceive things going forward into the season. I believe as things stand that the Jags are acting a bit French at the moment and could kick into gear at any time.

I find it interesting that you think my list is as horrendous as that other list. From your complaints against it, the positions I have are only one or two spots off the correct positions you would have them, as opposed to the other list where teams are significantly out of place such as the Hurricanes, Stormers and Kings.

As for your use of the word bias...

 

[0tago]

Okay mate . I put the Crusaders, Stormers and Highlanders in the same pool because I think they would be games where the home team won. I don't believe that because team a beat team b and team b beat team c that team a will automatically beat team c. Both the Stomers Sharks game and the Crusaders Sharks games were close.

Maybe on the scoreboard, but the Crusaders game in all other aspects of the game, were far from "close", they dominated in every department and the Sharks didn't even mount an attack, just scored two run away tries. Taking the draw and conference into consideration and by the quality of rugby they are actually playing, they're above the Stormers.

 

[saulan]

Maybe on the scoreboard, but the Crusaders game in all other aspects of the game, were far from "close", they dominated in every department and the Sharks didn't not even mount an attack, just scored two run away tries. Taking the draw and conference into consideration and by the quality of rugby they are actually playing, they're above the Stormers.

That's the thing though, on the scoreboard it was close, because they struggled to get through the defense of the Sharks. The Stormers so far have the best defensive record in the competition and although the Crusaders have been scoring points, they have been leaky in defense. I don't think either team would run away with the game and I think the game could go either way. But quality of rugby doesn't just mean good attacking rugby, its a complete game with both attack and defense. Both teams have room for improvement, but are doing well.

 

[0tago]

That's the thing though, on the scoreboard it was close, because they struggled to get through the defense of the Sharks. The Stormers so far have the best defensive record in the competition and although the Crusaders have been scoring points, they have been leaky in defense. I don't think either team would run away with the game and I think the game could go either way. But quality of rugby doesn't just mean good attacking rugby, its a complete game with both attack and defense. Both teams have room for improvement, but are doing well.

But that's the thing though, the Crusaders won and the Stormers lost vs the Sharks, and that was an away game for the Crusaders on tour, something the Stormers don't do.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I see a pattern here...

 

[saulan]

But that's the thing though, the Crusaders won and the Stormers lost vs the Sharks, and that was an away game for the Crusaders on tour, something the Stormers don't do.

I will repeat, A beating B who beats C doesn't mean that A beats C. The Stormers haven't toured this season yet, apart from the win in Argentina. We will see how that goes. I'm basing things on this season.

 

[0tago]

I will repeat, A beating B who beats C doesn't mean that A beats C. The Stormers haven't toured this season yet, apart from the win in Argentina. We will see how that goes. I'm basing things on this season.

Actually it does, of course you can measure by A beating B who beats C doesn't mean that A beats C, especially when you're talking about a small margin of power differentiation. There was absolutely no justification to place the Stormers above the Crusaders, where as the argument in the other direction is stronger with more examples of why the Crusaders should be above the Stormers.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Actually it does, of course you can measure by A beating B who beats C doesn't mean that A beats C, especially when you're talking about a small margin of power differentiation. There was absolutely no justification to place the Stormers above the Crusaders, where as the argument in the other direction is stronger with more examples of why the Crusaders should be above the Stormers.

You're getting rather worked up about this aren't you.

These rankings doesn't really mean jack-sh**! So who cares??

 

[0tago]

You're getting rather worked up about this aren't you.

These rankings doesn't really mean jack-sh**! So who cares??

No, I'm just enjoying having an argument/discussion, looks like you're the one getting worked up tbh.

 

[Irish boy]

These are done all the time with the NFL franchises. I think they are just someone's opinion.

 

[saulan]

Actually it does, of course you can measure by A beating B who beats C doesn't mean that A beats C, especially when you're talking about a small margin of power differentiation. There was absolutely no justification to place the Stormers above the Crusaders, where as the argument in the other direction is stronger with more examples of why the Crusaders should be above the Stormers.

Based on this reasoning: The Chiefs lost to the Lions while playing at home. The Lions lost to the Highlanders and the Crusaders while the Chiefs beat the Crusaders, Jaguares and Brumbies. By your reasoning the Highlanders and Crusaders are better than the Chiefs and the Lions are better than the Jaguares and the Brumbies.

When there are small margins in a game there is even more reason to believe this would not hold. You have presented only one argument. Please present the other ones you refer to. But keep in mind that I am saying that these teams are pretty much on the same level and any team can win on the day, which is why I have them in the same tranche.

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These are done all the time with the NFL franchises. I think they are just someone's opinion.

That is exactly what they are. Simply opinions. Something to talk about midweek until teams actually play or the final winner is decided.

 

[0tago]

Based on this reasoning: The Chiefs lost to the Lions while playing at home. The Lions lost to the Highlanders and the Crusaders while the Chiefs beat the Crusaders, Jaguares and Brumbies. By your reasoning the Highlanders and Crusaders are better than the Chiefs and the Lions are better than the Jaguares and the Brumbies.

When there are small margins in a game there is even more reason to believe this would not hold. You have presented only one argument. Please present the other ones you refer to. But keep in mind that I am saying that these teams are pretty much on the same level and any team can win on the day, which is why I have them in the same tranche.

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That is exactly what they are. Simply opinions. Something to talk about midweek until teams actually play or the final winner is decided.

There are far more factors coming into play with those teams, like the quality of opposition, the amount of tries scored and the fact the Chiefs had beaten the Crusaders. Using common sense and actually watching the performances of the teams goes along way as well, I suggest you try it.

 

[saulan]

Using common sense and actually watching the performances of the teams goes along way as well, I suggest you try it.

Come on, is that necessary?

I was simply explaining why the argument you presented to me was flawed. You are now arguing against your own point that team A beating team B who beats team C means team A will beat team C. The fact that the Chiefs have beaten the Crusaders proves your argument wrong.

 

[0tago]

Come on, is that necessary?

I was simply explaining why the argument you presented to me was flawed. You are now arguing against your own point that team A beating team B who beats team C means team A will beat team C. The fact that the Chiefs have beaten the Crusaders proves your argument wrong.

Sorry a bit harsh, I agree.

But really, looking at the performances you don't have to be a genius to come to this conclusion. The Crusaders have scored 22 tries, the Stormers haven't even scored half as many, on 10, the 3rd lowest in the competition. Granted they have decent defense, but you can't claim to be the 3rd best team in the competition with a stat like that.

 

[TRF_heineken]

There are far more factors coming into play with those teams, like the quality of opposition, the amount of tries scored and the fact the Chiefs had beaten the Crusaders. Using common sense and actually watching the performances of the teams goes along way as well, I suggest you try it.

Based on that logic, what is your educated opinion about the Brumbies?

 

[0tago]

Based on that logic, what is your educated opinion about the Brumbies?

I think they were tired vs an inform Chiefs, the Brumbies had just come back from a tough SA tour. Granted the Stormers played smart vs them in Cape Town, ultimately Peyper and the TMO killed that game off. They will regain some form, but they have a few tough fixtures to front up for, and I think teams have figured them out, they have some glaring weaknesses, one of them is Jesse Mogg leaving.

Oh and David Pocock is banned for 3 weeks, making things even tougher.