Steroids: Are they Rugby's Dirty Little Secret?

[bushytop]

I am a bit of a gym monkey but have never felt the need to aid my training with steroids. Being a huge rugby fan the topic of 'the modern rugby player' has arisen on a few occasions in both of the local gyms I attend.

Both of the gym proprietors were adamant that steroid use is rife within the pro game and that authorities simply look the other way.

I originally thought it highly unlikely, having seen the big deal made of steroid abuse in athletics and cycling etc. but both people I spoke to named the same person (an ex international) whose job it is to supply the players of a well known professional club with the required drugs.

I am left hoping that the game I love is drug free but no longer sure. Has anybody else any knowledge in this area that might confirm or denounce these rumours?

 

[cyRil]

Mate It'd be very naive to think it wasn't going on, it is in a big way. Even coaches in Division 4 East (the league I play) advocate the use of steroids (subtly on the sly) - they tell you to go away and 'get big' over the summer. There's only one thing that means. NOT THAT I EVER HAVE MIGHT I ADD!!!

 

[Seaton]

Supplements aplenty, but actual steroids, I doubt it.

The World Anti-doping agency would discredit the iRB if proper tests weren't carried out frequently. Then rugby wouldn't be in the Olympics or receive government backing.

In relation to the pro game of course

 

[dullonien]

I've heard of very few players caught doping. Even the ones that have, were only for banned substances taken accidentally, substances that have very little impact on performance. If the use of steroids was rife in the pro game, then we'd have heard about it by now, with drugs tests being carried out on a consistent basis.

Maybe I'm being naive, but considering the problems other sports are having with doping, I don't see how rugby players could escape being caught if it were rife. If it was as common knowledge as you claim (with gym proprietors spilling the beans to random members about an ex-player supplying drugs), then that ex-player would have been caught and prosecuted by now, as well as a full investigation of whatever club was mentioned. It's probably just a bunch of rumours which are completely unsubstanciated.

I have no doubt that it's use could be rife within the amateur lower leagues as Cyril says. It's quite common knowlege that steroids are used heavily in certain parts of South Wales (not just by the rugby playing community). They're known as 'roiders' after all. This is a different matter, and whilst it is still a serious issue, I don't think the same can be said of the professional game.

 

[big ginger 8]

Not at the elite level. There's way to many random drug tests and the penalty wouldn't be worth the gain. Plenty of supplements but these have to be checked by the teams nutritionists to make sure there's no illegal substances if they don't the penalty is pretty severe. The captain of Blackrock club in Dublin was taking some energy drink he thought was legit but there was some substance in it and he's now banned for a year and he's only semi-pro.

 

[ORothlain]

Anytime an environment is created where the need to get bigger, stronger and more powerful in a short period of time (as you mentioned "over the summer") steroid use will be found. I don't doubt that it happens, especially in amateur. At the pro-level, I doubt it's "rife" although I would imagine there are some individuals doing it, as with any sport.

 

[racingmetrofan]

I am a bit of a gym monkey but have never felt the need to aid my training with steroids. Being a huge rugby fan the topic of 'the modern rugby player' has arisen on a few occasions in both of the local gyms I attend.

Both of the gym proprietors were adamant that steroid use is rife within the pro game and that authorities simply look the other way.

I originally thought it highly unlikely, having seen the big deal made of steroid abuse in athletics and cycling etc. but both people I spoke to named the same person (an ex international) whose job it is to supply the players of a well known professional club with the required drugs.

I am left hoping that the game I love is drug free but no longer sure. Has anybody else any knowledge in this area that might confirm or denounce these rumours?

I doubt it. Even the strongest players reach levels that aren't particularly high.

Sheridan is meant to be one of the strongest players in the world, benching 215 Kg, and squatting 275 Kg. But the raw drugs tested world records are 322.5kg for the bench press and raw (but untested) world record for a back squat is 453.59 kg. So Sheridan's squat is 60% of the untested squat world record, and his bench is 66% of the drugs tested world record. One would have thought that if steroids were used, the numbers would be comparatively higher.

One of my mates has seen Quins train a few times and was pretty unimpressed at their strength levels as well. I don't think the strength etcof the players is indicative of steroid use at all.

 

[lhprop1]

Supplements aplenty, but actual steroids, I doubt it.

The World Anti-doping agency would discredit the iRB if proper tests weren't carried out frequently. Then rugby wouldn't be in the Olympics or receive government backing.

In relation to the pro game of course

Not at the elite level. There's way to many random drug tests and the penalty wouldn't be worth the gain. Plenty of supplements but these have to be checked by the teams nutritionists to make sure there's no illegal substances if they don't the penalty is pretty severe. The captain of Blackrock club in Dublin was taking some energy drink he thought was legit but there was some substance in it and he's now banned for a year and he's only semi-pro.

Steroids happen at every level in almost every sport and on a much larger scale than many of you would like to believe. Sure, WADA has protocols but the athletes know the testing protocols and how to get around them.

A dirty little secret is that when certain Olympic athletes need to "get big" (which is a grave misnomer when you consider that different steroids do different things) they will go to an undisclosed location for the duration of their cycle. They also have someone call their phone and fill up their voicemail making them "unreachable" and immune from having to take the test until they get back and can test clean.

To think that it doesn't happen at the elite level of one sport like rugby but it happens at the elite levels of every other sport is incredibly naive.

 

[big ginger 8]

Steroids happen at every level in almost every sport and on a much larger scale than many of you would like to believe. Sure, WADA has protocols but the athletes know the testing protocols and how to get around them.

A dirty little secret is that when certain Olympic athletes need to "get big" (which is a grave misnomer when you consider that different steroids do different things) they will go to an undisclosed location for the duration of their cycle. They also have someone call their phone and fill up their voicemail making them "unreachable" and immune from having to take the test until they get back and can test clean.

To think that it doesn't happen at the elite level of one sport like rugby but it happens at the elite levels of every other sport is incredibly naive.

Not really in rugby you need to be big but too big and you won't have mobility. They are in the gym nearly every day and on a number of different supplements I can't think of a single player's who's size really suggests roid usage. It's not as if players can go off somewhere as you say. I think in total the Irish internationals had 2 weeks of this year. They would be using that for an actual holiday and rest cause by God they'd need it.

There's random drug testing after nearly every match. I'm sorry but I simply can't believe players at the highest level would take it. Just because it happens in other sports doesn't mean it happens in rugby. Not because rugby is morally superior or anything like that but because it's so damn impossible to get away with it. I mean here they're even going to bring in drug testing at schoolboy level.

 

[lhprop1]

Not really in rugby you need to be big but too big and you won't have mobility. They are in the gym nearly every day and on a number of different supplements I can't think of a single player's who's size really suggests roid usage. It's not as if players can go off somewhere as you say. I think in total the Irish internationals had 2 weeks of this year. They would be using that for an actual holiday and rest cause by God they'd need it.

There's random drug testing after nearly every match. I'm sorry but I simply can't believe players at the highest level would take it. Just because it happens in other sports doesn't mean it happens in rugby. Not because rugby is morally superior or anything like that but because it's so damn impossible to get away with it. I mean here they're even going to bring in drug testing at schoolboy level.

The problem with your assertion is that you assume they're taking steroids to get bigger. While some steroids will in fact make you bigger, there's a wild array of designer PED's (not just steroids) that will do everything from make you faster to give you more endurance. In short, steroids don't necessarily make you bigger, they just greatly improve your ability to recover from training and matches at an astronomical rate. With the number of matches on the schedule, the ability to recover from a training session 5 times faster than your competition is a great advantage.

And while it can be universally accepted that skill and endurance make a great rugby player, not size and power, a player with skill and endurance will only increase his stock in the eyes of the selectors if he can add some mass to his current skill and velocity.

And to think that they don't do it because "it's too tough to get away with" you're sadly mistaken. In order for there to be a test, there had to be a substance that first existed for which that test could be developed. The only guys that get popped are the ones carelessly using testable drugs. There are many PED's out there right now for which no test exists with many more in development. Once a test is devised and implemented, it will be on to the new flavor of the month. It's a cat and mouse game.

For what it's worth, I do believe that steroids are less rampant in European sports (rugby and soccer) than in other sports around the world simply because the emphasis is more on skill and endurance than on power and speed like in Olympic sports or American sports like football.

 

[racingmetrofan]

Steroids happen at every level in almost every sport and on a much larger scale than many of you would like to believe. Sure, WADA has protocols but the athletes know the testing protocols and how to get around them.

A dirty little secret is that when certain Olympic athletes need to "get big" (which is a grave misnomer when you consider that different steroids do different things) they will go to an undisclosed location for the duration of their cycle. They also have someone call their phone and fill up their voicemail making them "unreachable" and immune from having to take the test until they get back and can test clean.

To think that it doesn't happen at the elite level of one sport like rugby but it happens at the elite levels of every other sport is incredibly naive.

It's difficult to see how steroids are going to make enough of a difference to rugby players to be worth taking them. And compared to many, many other sports, rugby is so much of a team and skills based game that at the top, it's the skills and how the team plays together that makes one win trophies, not individuals enhanced by steroids.

However many steroids Andy Goode takes he is never going to be as good as Dan Carter, for example.

 

[big ginger 8]

It's difficult to see how steroids are going to make enough of a difference to rugby players to be worth taking them. And compared to many, many other sports, rugby is so much of a team and skills based game that at the top, it's the skills and how the team plays together that makes one win trophies, not individuals enhanced by steroids.

However many steroids Andy Goode takes he is never going to be as good as Dan Carter, for example.

It's also quite clear Goode's never taken steroids just look at his belly.

 

[ORothlain]

While some steroids will in fact make you bigger, there's a wild array of designer PED's (not just steroids) that will do everything from make you faster to give you more endurance. In short, steroids don't necessarily make you bigger, they just greatly improve your ability to recover from training and matches at an astronomical rate. With the number of matches on the schedule, the ability to recover from a training session 5 times faster than your competition is a great advantage.

Probably the best point made so far...Lance Armstrong wasn't accused of getting Huge, was he? No, but the steroids used in cycling, etc deal more with recovery, stamina and endurance.
Not saying I think players are on them, but that would seem to me what would be an easy fall back for a pro-rugger with today's schedule.

 

[big ginger 8]

The problem with your assertion is that you assume they're taking steroids to get bigger. While some steroids will in fact make you bigger, there's a wild array of designer PED's (not just steroids) that will do everything from make you faster to give you more endurance. In short, steroids don't necessarily make you bigger, they just greatly improve your ability to recover from training and matches at an astronomical rate. With the number of matches on the schedule, the ability to recover from a training session 5 times faster than your competition is a great advantage.

And while it can be universally accepted that skill and endurance make a great rugby player, not size and power, a player with skill and endurance will only increase his stock in the eyes of the selectors if he can add some mass to his current skill and velocity.

And to think that they don't do it because "it's too tough to get away with" you're sadly mistaken. In order for there to be a test, there had to be a substance that first existed for which that test could be developed. The only guys that get popped are the ones carelessly using testable drugs. There are many PED's out there right now for which no test exists with many more in development. Once a test is devised and implemented, it will be on to the new flavor of the month. It's a cat and mouse game.

For what it's worth, I do believe that steroids are less rampant in European sports (rugby and soccer) than in other sports around the world simply because the emphasis is more on skill and endurance than on power and speed like in Olympic sports or American sports like football.

I once asked a former pro (who only retired a year ago) about this he assured me he didn't no of any cases in the top leagues. He said it was probably pretty common in lower leagues but not the top level. The supplements market is very badly managed so the players have to be very careful about what they take. Everything has to be approved by a nutritionist.

Players already have loads of thinks to help with recovery (shakes, ice baths etc.). Could you name one top player who you'd say takes steroids? I can think of none who'd you say yep he's taking them. Players like Jamie Roberts are big because a mixture of genetics, good diet (with legal supplements) and hard work (and recovery afterwards of course).

Look you're not going to convince me unless you actually have a high profile case. So why not agree to disagree on this and agree that even if there was any steroid abuse it'd be nowhere near as bad as cycling.

 

[bushytop]

It's difficult to see how steroids are going to make enough of a difference to rugby players to be worth taking them. And compared to many, many other sports, rugby is so much of a team and skills based game that at the top, it's the skills and how the team plays together that makes one win trophies, not individuals enhanced by steroids.

The implication I heard (and indeed prompted me to start this thread) was that a large percentage of professionals were using steroids. So the team work statement doesn't really apply... as the whole team may be using. Also enhanced speed, endurance and strength would surely improve a teams ability to win trophies.

 

[ORothlain]

I often inject steroids straight into my junk so I can perform pushups with no hands...it really, really impresses the ladies.

 

[big ginger 8]

I often inject steroids straight into my junk so I can perform pushups with no hands...it really, really impresses the ladies.

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[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think it's as widespread as some in here think.
In fact I'd be incredibly surprised if there were many/any pro (Aviva/Magners/Top14/SuperXV) players who juice.
The people who test them are an independent company, so it's naive to think they'd turn a blind eye or whatever, and like it's stated above they get tested often, and at random.
On twitter you often see players complaining about a 6am knock at the door, and it being someone there to take a urine test.

Lower down the leagues you'll always get a few nobheads who do it, but I don't think it's widespread at the highest level.

 

[Seaton]

Steroids happen at every level in almost every sport and on a much larger scale than many of you would like to believe. Sure, WADA has protocols but the athletes know the testing protocols and how to get around them.

A dirty little secret is that when certain Olympic athletes need to "get big" (which is a grave misnomer when you consider that different steroids do different things) they will go to an undisclosed location for the duration of their cycle. They also have someone call their phone and fill up their voicemail making them "unreachable" and immune from having to take the test until they get back and can test clean.

To think that it doesn't happen at the elite level of one sport like rugby but it happens at the elite levels of every other sport is incredibly naive.

Aye, understand that bit, can even understand some players doing it in certain circumstances.

Such that without the growth treatments Lionel Messi received or whatever, we wouldn't be able to watch his awesome skillz.

A player could take them whilst out injured and stuff, when testing doesn't occur and what not, just don't think the pros use it while they are playing and likely to be tested, or at the very least it isn't rife.

 

[racingmetrofan]

The implication I heard (and indeed prompted me to start this thread) was that a large percentage of professionals were using steroids. So the team work statement doesn't really apply... as the whole team may be using. Also enhanced speed, endurance and strength would surely improve a teams ability to win trophies.

How they play as a team. So having Matfield and Bakkies Botha who have played a ridiculous number of international tests together, or Carter, Nonu and Smith, is more significant than players x, y and z who each have 15lb extra of lean muscle mass. Or having a fly half who at international level just kicks the ball away or can play an all round game...

This is the point - all things being equal, steroids may give one an advantage. But the inequality comes from the importance of skill, teamwork etc.

Therefore if everyone takes steroids, well you're just back to who can play the most skillfully and play as the best team.

Logically, therefore ,you don't want to take steroids as you have the inconvenience of steroids and bannings while ​not actually making the players or the team comparitively better.