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Stupid noobie-esque question...

dasNdanger

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That I should probably know the answer to...but sadly, I don't. :blush:

Which international games count towards world rankings, and which don't?



Thankies in advance.


das
 
Well any test match, so any of official nation vs nation fixtures, I'm quite sure discounting Baabaa, NZ Maori type games.
I don't think USA vs NZ Maoris counts, but I know USA Canada counts. I'm quite sure the Wallabies' latest win in London against the Barbarians doesn't actually bring them up on the IRB rankings.
 
Well any test match, so any of official nation vs nation fixtures, I'm quite sure discounting Baabaa, NZ Maori type games.
I don't think USA vs NZ Maoris counts, but I know USA Canada counts. I'm quite sure the Wallabies' latest win in London against the Barbarians doesn't actually bring them up on the IRB rankings.

Yep, when, one national side plays another ... when anyone of the teams on their IRB rankings plays another on their list, so those example of the Barbarians playing, NZ Maori playing do not count, nor does playing teams with an "A" at the end, and by that I mean Australia "A" not AustraliA :)

Games against provinces/clubs also don't count, so the All Blacks V Munster doesn't count towards the rankings, England V the Crusaders wouldn't count either
 
Thanks, guys!

Didn't they once call the exhibition games (e.g. Baa-Baas v Maori ABs, or A/B-team matches) 'friendlies'? Or is that something else? I always thought that friendlies didn't count towards world rankings.


das
 
Thanks, guys!

Didn't they once call the exhibition games (e.g. Baa-Baas v Maori ABs, or A/B-team matches) 'friendlies'? Or is that something else? I always thought that friendlies didn't count towards world rankings.


das

Back in the old (amateur) days, they use to be called "first class matches" playing for your club or province in any game would also be considered a first class match ... I'm not sure that it's still the correct terminology or not, but a player playing for there national team against NZ Maori, or for NZ Maori would not be awarded an "international cap" for the match, and the result would not effect the national team's ranking.

Interestingly enough, Ritchie McCaw just past Colin Meads for the total number of games for the All Blacks, but the number of first class games that Meads played for the All Blacks was greater than test matches, because back in his day, the All Blacks played tour matches against the clubs and provinces between the test matches.

"Friendlies" is a term that I do not like, and comes from Soccer - it refers to international matches played between World Cups ... under this definition, England V South Africa just played, would be considered "a friendly" , which clearly it was not ... I dislike the term because it belittles the importance of matches between World Cups, and implies (IMO) that they are little more than trial matches
 
yeah it's true. "Friendly" may apply to football more because teams aren't all that committed but there's nothing 'friendly' about a Test match in Rugby Union. Some mid-year or EOYT test matches have been much more intense than 6N or 4N or even World Cup matches, and especially with the history and context of test matches; think NZ vs France, Australia vs England...etc...
 
Thanks again, guys! I haven't heard the term 'friendly' for rugby in quite a while, so maybe rugby announcers and such saw the err of their ways and corrected their terminology.

So - do competitions such as the RC and 6N go towards world standings? I'm guessing the spring and fall internationals do, correct?


das
 
Thanks again, guys! I haven't heard the term 'friendly' for rugby in quite a while, so maybe rugby announcers and such saw the err of their ways and corrected their terminology.

So - do competitions such as the RC and 6N go towards world standings? I'm guessing the spring and fall internationals do, correct?


das

Yep, all of the above contribute to the rankings ... any match where a national side plays another national side.
 
Yep, all of the above contribute to the rankings ... any match where a national side plays another national side.

Thanks again. And again. :) Back when I first starting watching the game 14+ years ago (and without ANYone to discuss it with, so relying solely on what commentators, et al, said), the fall and spring tests were sometimes referred to as 'friendlies'. This may have been a term American announcers used since rugby was aired on a 'soccer' channel. I always thought that a friendly meant the game had no impact on rankings (like an exhibition match), so over the years that erroneous idea stuck with me, and I just could never figure out what games actually had a bearing on rankings. I do appreciate the clarification!

No matter what anyone says, I think this place is the best! :)


das
 
No matter what anyone says, I think this place is the best! :)

I thought I was a positive dude...your enthusiasm is humbling. Or you're just...yeah, no, you're probably just completely insane. Like, clinically insane. Sorry...
 
I thought I was a positive dude...your enthusiasm is humbling. Or you're just...yeah, no, you're probably just completely insane. Like, clinically insane. Sorry...

Close. ;)

However...my name is not 'Pendergast'.


Don't get the reference? Good. :)



das
 
RWC games are worth double points in the rankings if I recall correctly.

Oh, hey LG ... yes, I forgot about that, the points on offer are worth double in the Rugby World Cup.
@dasNdanger , your welcome, ... you are right about this place ... I go AWOL from it for long periods of time, but I always seem to come back :)

I don't want to derail the thread, but sometimes the commentators don't seem to know themselves, and they just add to the confusion :)
 
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Oh, hey LG ... yes, I forgot about that, the points on offer are worth double in the Rugby World Cup.
@dasNdanger , your welcome, ... you are right about this place ... I go AWOL from it for long periods of time, but I always seem to come back :)

I don't want to derail the thread, but sometimes the commentators don't seem to know themselves, and they just add to the confusion :)

Personally, I don't mind if a thread I started gets derailed - sometimes derailed threads are the best of all!

As far as commentators go - American commentators are the worst. Absolute worst. Aussie commentators tend to be a bit bias, and NZ commentators - okay...just Justin Marshall - tend to be overly excitable...like puppies that run in circles and piddle on the floor when you come home from work. :)


das
 
First Team of Nation v First team of Nation are the only ones that count

The following matches do not count


Second National Sides i.e. "A" sides
National Sides v Club sides (including Barbarians)
NZ Maori
British and Irish Lions
PIRA
 
Personally, I don't mind if a thread I started gets derailed - sometimes derailed threads are the best of all!

As far as commentators go - American commentators are the worst. Absolute worst. Aussie commentators tend to be a bit bias, and NZ commentators - okay...just Justin Marshall - tend to be overly excitable...like puppies that run in circles and piddle on the floor when you come home from work. :)


das

LOL ... better watch out ... they might be watching :)

I was pretty critical of the New Zealand commentators making stupid comments about the size of the South African open side flankers once, because they had the number "7" on the backs of their jerseys, not realising that the South African open sides play in the "6" Jersey, and the Blind Side plays in "7" ... I swear, the very next match, they went to great pains to explain this ... could be a coincidence though :)

... at least the American comments guys try to explain what's going on more, but the problem is, they get guys that are professional commentators, and don't really know the game inside and out.

You know Australian commentators are the reason the mute button is there for New Zealand fans

... still trying to get that image of Justin Marshall out of my mind :)

First Team of Nation v First team of Nation are the only ones that count

The following matches do not count


Second National Sides i.e. "A" sides
National Sides v Club sides (including Barbarians)
NZ Maori
British and Irish Lions
PIRA

True, I forgot about the British and Irish Lions ... those games are considered internationals though, so they contribute to the player's test cap total, but not to the teams rankings
 
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First Team of Nation v First team of Nation are the only ones that count

The following matches do not count


Second National Sides i.e. "A" sides
National Sides v Club sides (including Barbarians)
NZ Maori
British and Irish Lions
PIRA

They go by Ireland now, that was then.
 
LOL ... better watch out ... they might be watching :)

I was pretty critical of the New Zealand commentators making stupid comments about the size of the South African open side flankers once, because they had the number "7" on the backs of their jerseys, not realising that the South African open sides play in the "6" Jersey, and the Blind Side plays in "7" ... I swear, the very next match, they went to great pains to explain this ... could be a coincidence though :)

... at least the American comments guys try to explain what's going on more, but the problem is, they get guys that are professional commentators, and don't really know the game inside and out.

You know Australian commentators are the reason the mute button is there for New Zealand fans

... still trying to get that image of Justin Marshall out of my mind :)

:lol:


Justin is adorable...I'm sure if he does come here (which I highly doubt) he knows by now that I'm his biggest fan. He's the main reason I became an ABs fan back when I first started watching. He really caught my attention - a good little player. But the thing that always stuck in my head about him is that when he passed the ball (out of a ruck or scrum) he'd often fall on his belly. For some reason that just gave me a giggle, and made him rather endearing to me. I suppose I like men with flaws. :)


das
 
They go by Ireland now, that was then.

Hah, funny... Provisional Irish Republican Army rugby team. They play in front of empty stadiums because fans aren't willing to risk getting blown up.

PIRA = Pacific Islands Rugby Alliance

http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...M9DcxjrzdfGqfMEBQ&sig2=-DuFL-OS9pShT3e8SGd7FA

... at least the American comments guys try to explain what's going on more, but the problem is, they get guys that are professional commentators, and don't really know the game inside and out.

My first ever experience of listening to American rugby commentators was during the LA Sevens a few years ago. They kept calling tries "touchdowns", balls made dead in goal "touchbacks" or "safeties" and when the ball was put in touch they said it was "out of bounds". Ten minutes of this and I was about ready to hurl my Export Gold tinny at the TV!


IMO, Justin Marshall get s a lot of unfair flak from Kiwi fans.

I actually like him as a commentator; I like the passion and colour he brings to commentary, and that fact he is able to do this without bias is a credit to him.

Something else I like about Marshal is that he does know the Laws very well for an ex-player, and that is where he has got it streets ahead of sycophantic, one-eyed Aussies like Phil Kearns. I would have to say that Justin Marshall, Tony Johnson and the South African commentators Naas Botha & Warren Brosnihan would have the best Law knowledge of any of the SH commentators.
 
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