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Super Rugby Pacific (2022)

Kiwiwomble

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A bit of common sense that is frankly an embarrassment for the Aus union.


Surely if the issue is TV money then that is a reflection on the ineptitude of the Aus union? The NZ union won't have been central to money negotiations between the Aus union and broadcasters will it? Is the Aus union suggesting the NZ union should be a charity that exists to subsidise the Aus union?
thats how it use to be, each union negotiated their tv deal and then it all went into a common pool, and that was part of the idea that it was one comp...but now NZR is saying we want to dominate and have all the money we bring...which is fair enough if we're actually willing to let them go when theyve had enough


this is where i think we're getting it wrong, we're like the rich kid that got the video game no one else had....and got good at it because we play it more than everyone else...and are now shitty the other kids dont want to play with us

if we want to be able to keep playing rugby with the rest of the kids...we're going to have to stop rubbing the fact we're awesome in everyones faces...or they'll just go play the sports theyre good at....or we need to accept we'll have the NPC like aussie has the AFL....we're great but no one else plays it

we cant have it both ways
 

Bruce_ma gooshvili

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thats how it use to be, each union negotiated their tv deal and then it all went into a common pool, and that was part of the idea that it was one comp...but now NZR is saying we want to dominate and have all the money we bring...which is fair enough if we're actually willing to let them go when theyve had enough


this is where i think we're getting it wrong, we're like the rich kid that got the video game no one else had....and got good at it because we play it more than everyone else...and are now shitty the other kids dont want to play with us

if we want to be able to keep playing rugby with the rest of the kids...we're going to have to stop rubbing the fact we're awesome in everyones faces...or they'll just go play the sports theyre good at....or we need to accept we'll have the NPC like aussie has the AFL....we're great but no one else plays it

we cant have it both ways
Yeah, but this is all about player retention, not greed. Same reason why NZ line up so many exhibition matches. Every concession NZ give to a failing union like Aus is a step towards an AB playing overseas and a decline in the strength of the national side.

Where NZ have got it wrong I think is in letting the bridges be burnt with Japan. Similar, timezone, loads of TV and sponsorship money and a standard not far off Rebels, Force, Drua and Pacifika.

It's true NZ don't have many cards to play given their geography. But if the door to Japan is still open as a plan B I'd be calling Australia's bluff and let their union vandalise the quality of their domestic game if they choose to do so. When a partner starts behaving erratically or immature then I think you should be avoiding any sort of concession that might encourage further tantrums and blackmail down the line.
 

Derpus

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Yeah, but this is all about player retention, not greed. Same reason why NZ line up so many exhibition matches. Every concession NZ give to a failing union like Aus is a step towards an AB playing overseas and a decline in the strength of the national side.

Where NZ have got it wrong I think is in letting the bridges be burnt with Japan. Similar, timezone, loads of TV and sponsorship money and a standard not far off Rebels, Force, Drua and Pacifika.

It's true NZ don't have many cards to play given their geography. But if the door to Japan is still open as a plan B I'd be calling Australia's bluff and let their union vandalise the quality of their domestic game if they choose to do so. When a partner starts behaving erratically or immature then I think you should be avoiding any sort of concession that might encourage further tantrums and blackmail down the line.
Even with SR and general world dominance rugby viewing and participation figures are on the wane in NZ. How many times can we watch the Saders pump the Blues or Hurricanes and still be entertained?

They don't want Aussie involved in SR because they think it's the best thing for us. They want it because the reality is NZ is a tiny, saturated market and **** is on the slide big time - they are realistically 5-10 years behind Australia but on the exact same trajectory in terms of finances, interest and player retention.

The door to Japan was never open. Losing to the 'Saders doesn't fit in with their corporate dong swinging model.

And lets talk about partners behaving erratically:
- flogged off SARU and Argentina
- demanded we cut three teams
- approached our franchises directly without consent
- abandoned a sold out (90k seater) test match after we had made accommodations to play them twice in a row in NZ.

What did the 'erratic and immature' RA do? call them out. Name one action they've taken that has been immature or erratic?

NZRU are fuckwits. Pay more attention.
 

Bruce_ma gooshvili

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Even with SR and general world dominance rugby viewing and participation figures are on the wane in NZ. How many times can we watch the Saders pump the Blues or Hurricanes and still be entertained? They don't want Aussie involved in SR because they think it's the best thing for us. They want it because the reality is NZ is a tiny, saturated market and **** is on the slide big time - they are realistically 5-10 years behind Australia but on the exact same trajectory in terms of finances, interest and player retention. The door to Japan was never open. Losing to the 'Saders doesn't fit in with their corporate dong swinging model. And lets talk about partners behaving erratically: - flogged off SARU and Argentina - demanded we cut three teams - approached our franchises directly without consent - abandoned a sold out (90k seater) test match after we had made accommodations to play them twice in a row in NZ. What did the 'erratic and immature' RA do? call them out. Name one action they've taken that has been immature or erratic? NZRU are fuckwits. Pay more attention.

If NZ are so messed up and a fifth of the population of Australia, what does it say about RA that Australia's TV money is less than a third of NZs? I don't know how anyone with a grasp of mathematics can say the NZ union are the one messing up more (even if I think they were muppets to look a gift horse in the mouth with Japan).

I've been clear I think RAs hissy fit the week before the SR final was both immature and erratic, leading to their national team coach feeling the need to publicly point out how boneheaded it would be (and Rennie was scathing of the NZ union not long ago, even though it was operating in a country with stricter Covid measures, which seemed to be overlooked).

You don't see the NZ union garnering headlines like this from credible news outlets. RA is a basket case and the good work seemingly being done by Scott Johnson to raise standards risks being fatally undermined by a union that a few years ago considered 5 franchises were too many, but now want us to believe they think 7 franchises is a good idea!

 

Derpus

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If NZ are so messed up and a fifth of the population of Australia, what does it say about RA that Australia's TV money is less than a third of NZs? I don't know how anyone with a grasp of mathematics can say the NZ union are the one messing up more (even if I think they were muppets to look a gift horse in the mouth with Japan).

I've been clear I think RAs hissy fit the week before the SR final was both immature and erratic, leading to their national team coach feeling the need to publicly point out how boneheaded it would be (and Rennie was scathing of the NZ union not long ago, even though it was operating in a country with stricter Covid measures, which seemed to be overlooked).

You don't see the NZ union garnering headlines like this from credible news outlets. RA is a basket case and the good work seemingly being done by Scott Johnson to raise standards risks being fatally undermined by a union that a few years ago considered 5 franchises were too many, but now want us to believe they think 7 franchises is a good idea!

I never said RA knew what they were doing. I just said NZRU are horrible.

But, setting that aside you clearly have not a single clue about the local sporting market in Aus and I really can't be bothered explaining it to you so - as you were.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Even with SR and general world dominance rugby viewing and participation figures are on the wane in NZ. How many times can we watch the Saders pump the Blues or Hurricanes and still be entertained?

They don't want Aussie involved in SR because they think it's the best thing for us. They want it because the reality is NZ is a tiny, saturated market and **** is on the slide big time - they are realistically 5-10 years behind Australia but on the exact same trajectory in terms of finances, interest and player retention.

The door to Japan was never open. Losing to the 'Saders doesn't fit in with their corporate dong swinging model.

And lets talk about partners behaving erratically:
- flogged off SARU and Argentina
- demanded we cut three teams
- approached our franchises directly without consent
- abandoned a sold out (90k seater) test match after we had made accommodations to play them twice in a row in NZ.

What did the 'erratic and immature' RA do? call them out. Name one action they've taken that has been immature or erratic?

NZRU are fuckwits. Pay more attention.
i do get sick of this being touted around as if it was purely NZR's fault, THE LAW in NZ during COVID meant travelling teams would have to quarantine for two weeks and that was only after flights even restarted going in and out of NZ...meaning anything near a normal comp format was unachievable...even between NZ and Aus we've barely managed to get something going
 

Dan54

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thats how it use to be, each union negotiated their tv deal and then it all went into a common pool, and that was part of the idea that it was one comp...but now NZR is saying we want to dominate and have all the money we bring...which is fair enough if we're actually willing to let them go when theyve had enough
Who told you that Kiwi? The original supersport deal was split evenly, and then SA felt because more money was coming from them, all would then do own deals and keep money they got from that deal. It hasn't been an even split since those days. To say NZR get 91 mill fron super rugby and RA get 30 mill is just untrue and most people know that.
Drua and MP get cut from NZR tv money too, and while I garee with that, if NZR decide they should give RA a cut of money from ABs, NPC or whatever and took money off grassroots rugby in this country they would rightfully be crucified.
By far the biggest rights Sky pay for is for All Blacks, and they also get paid for NPC and college rugby etc. The reason that NZR is getting a huge deal off Silver Lakes is because of All Blacks and not super so get amn idea where NZR's tv money comes from.
 

Dan54

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And lets talk about partners behaving erratically:
- flogged off SARU and Argentina
- demanded we cut three teams
- approached our franchises directly without consent
- abandoned a sold out (90k seater) test match after we had made accommodations to play them twice in a row in NZ.

What did the 'erratic and immature' RA do? call them out. Name one action they've taken that has been immature or erratic?

NZRU are fuckwits. Pay more attention.
:p:p That's not bad Derps, Tell us about this sold out 90,000 test in Perth that was abandoned. Which Perth stadium was it being played at that held 90,000? Surely it wasn't the one that was actually played at Optus Stadium in Perth , a stadium that holds 60,000 and was still sold out when played??
Demanded Aus cut 3 teams. when Aritipu report came out Aus only had 4 teams as RA cut Force a year or 2 before.:D
And to top it off if Aus didn't want SA and Jaguares why didn't they jsut join SA and Argies and leave NZ to it's own devices?

Mate in no way am I saying NZR didn't stuff up plenty, it's better when you point them out you keep it reasonably correct. even on a mainly NH rugby forum.
 

Bruce_ma gooshvili

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:p:p That's not bad Derps, Tell us about this sold out 90,000 test in Perth that was abandoned. Which Perth stadium was it being played at that held 90,000? Surely it wasn't the one that was actually played at Optus Stadium in Perth , a stadium that holds 60,000 and was still sold out when played??
Demanded Aus cut 3 teams. when Aritipu report came out Aus only had 4 teams as RA cut Force a year or 2 before.:D
And to top it off if Aus didn't want SA and Jaguares why didn't they jsut join SA and Argies and leave NZ to it's own devices?

Mate in no way am I saying NZR didn't stuff up plenty, it's better when you point them out you keep it reasonably correct. even on a mainly NH rugby forum.

It appears that the guy:

clearly have not a single clue about the local sporting market in Aus

Hopefully we get an extended period of him not being able to completely ignore points being made by posters, then making his own strawmen he likes, misattributing them to other posters, and arguing against them in a manner so lacking in social grace you almost wonder if be works for RA. :D
 
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