Menu
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Forums
Rugby Union
International Test Matches
Surprise! The all blacks are playing in 42 hours
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Larksea" data-source="post: 1004344" data-attributes="member: 43875"><p>dual playmakers didn't lose us the WC.</p><p>I think its been common place in the NZ game to play the best players even out of position and more recently for players to train and understand more than one position.</p><p>IMO it works much more often than it doesn't. I would say its pretty much always worked looking at the last 10 years or so.</p><p>Heck Read was a 6 who was converted to a #8 to fill a gap at test level. At the time we didn't have a world class #8 yet we had like 5 world class 6's.</p><p>Cory Jane was a fullback that converted to wing to play tests</p><p>Richard kahui was a center who played most of his test footy on the wing for the AB's and won a WC (he was critical in 2011)</p><p>Israel Dagg and Ben Smith were both fullbacks who played many games on the wing to accommodate each other and mils muliaina</p><p>Now we have Beauden Barrett and Damien McKenzie who are both equally effective at 10 or 15 and richie mo'unga who is still devaloping as a test 10 but has massive potential.</p><p>Jordie Barrett, if you asked him his preferred position he would probably say midfield. But his most value in test rugby is at wing/fullback mostly because we have a lot of depth in midfield and his height has been a huge bonus under the high ball. But Because we have Beauden and DMac as options at 15 Jordie will likely fill a whole at 14 that needs to be filled in the absence of NMS & Naholo. And Jordie has probably overtaken Sevu Reece on recent form.</p><p></p><p>The only one we have going that I dont like is Savea playing at #8, sure he's athletic and one of the best players in the world but hes a small fast 7. I think we lose too much bulk and height accommodating him at #8. his best roles is from the bench, Cane is the best defender in the NZ game and maybe the world and we need him starting, not to mention hes now captian... But I do see Hoskins Sotutu being developed into a starting #8 over the next couple years. IMO benching Cane for Savea was a bigger factor in the WC loss than dual playmakers. </p><p></p><p>The long reason for why we lost the WC started with the lions series in 2017 causing us to start a rebuild process in 2018 instead of 2016 then because of injury and form issues we had to do another mini rebuild right before the WC. I also think its clear the AB's played their final against Ireland (and then England played their Final against us) and we just didn't reset psychologically for the next game, we dumped so much energy (mostly mental) into Ireland expecting to to be a much tougher match than it was. By contrast SA had a dream Draw other than being in the same Pool as the AB's. A big factor in winning a a WC is getting a good draw through the finals. It would be irrational to throw out the "dual playmaker" idea based on that one game. Also considering how new Richie is to test Rugby. 2019 was a crazy year for the AB's, with DMac and squire out, Rieko Ioane's form going completely AWAL after being the best wing in the world for the 2 years prior and NMS & Naholo also dropping out and Ben Smith not back to 100 after injury issues. I think a lot of us in NZ didn't really expect the AB's to win but all of a sudden we started to play some fricken amazing rugby and in an instant became favorites again by beating the boks and then turning in more great performances before thrashing Ireland. Again, lots of reasons we didn't win, dual playmakers isn't one of them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Larksea, post: 1004344, member: 43875"] dual playmakers didn't lose us the WC. I think its been common place in the NZ game to play the best players even out of position and more recently for players to train and understand more than one position. IMO it works much more often than it doesn't. I would say its pretty much always worked looking at the last 10 years or so. Heck Read was a 6 who was converted to a #8 to fill a gap at test level. At the time we didn't have a world class #8 yet we had like 5 world class 6's. Cory Jane was a fullback that converted to wing to play tests Richard kahui was a center who played most of his test footy on the wing for the AB's and won a WC (he was critical in 2011) Israel Dagg and Ben Smith were both fullbacks who played many games on the wing to accommodate each other and mils muliaina Now we have Beauden Barrett and Damien McKenzie who are both equally effective at 10 or 15 and richie mo'unga who is still devaloping as a test 10 but has massive potential. Jordie Barrett, if you asked him his preferred position he would probably say midfield. But his most value in test rugby is at wing/fullback mostly because we have a lot of depth in midfield and his height has been a huge bonus under the high ball. But Because we have Beauden and DMac as options at 15 Jordie will likely fill a whole at 14 that needs to be filled in the absence of NMS & Naholo. And Jordie has probably overtaken Sevu Reece on recent form. The only one we have going that I dont like is Savea playing at #8, sure he's athletic and one of the best players in the world but hes a small fast 7. I think we lose too much bulk and height accommodating him at #8. his best roles is from the bench, Cane is the best defender in the NZ game and maybe the world and we need him starting, not to mention hes now captian... But I do see Hoskins Sotutu being developed into a starting #8 over the next couple years. IMO benching Cane for Savea was a bigger factor in the WC loss than dual playmakers. The long reason for why we lost the WC started with the lions series in 2017 causing us to start a rebuild process in 2018 instead of 2016 then because of injury and form issues we had to do another mini rebuild right before the WC. I also think its clear the AB's played their final against Ireland (and then England played their Final against us) and we just didn't reset psychologically for the next game, we dumped so much energy (mostly mental) into Ireland expecting to to be a much tougher match than it was. By contrast SA had a dream Draw other than being in the same Pool as the AB's. A big factor in winning a a WC is getting a good draw through the finals. It would be irrational to throw out the "dual playmaker" idea based on that one game. Also considering how new Richie is to test Rugby. 2019 was a crazy year for the AB's, with DMac and squire out, Rieko Ioane's form going completely AWAL after being the best wing in the world for the 2 years prior and NMS & Naholo also dropping out and Ben Smith not back to 100 after injury issues. I think a lot of us in NZ didn't really expect the AB's to win but all of a sudden we started to play some fricken amazing rugby and in an instant became favorites again by beating the boks and then turning in more great performances before thrashing Ireland. Again, lots of reasons we didn't win, dual playmakers isn't one of them. [/QUOTE]
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Rugby Union
International Test Matches
Surprise! The all blacks are playing in 42 hours
Top