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<blockquote data-quote="Cruz_del_Sur" data-source="post: 1100784" data-attributes="member: 55747"><p>I still don't see what you mean by sustainable. You are mentining problems, at best. If exporting (outsourcing) players make RU's unsustainable then we fundamentally disagree on the definition. </p><p></p><p>Has the level of rugby declined over the last 10 years? No. </p><p>Has any of the RU's you mentioned collapsed over the last 10 years? No (SR changed quite a bit but that had to do with covid more than anything). </p><p>Is rugby's total viewership declining with time? I don't have the numbers at hand but i seriously doubt so. </p><p>Is the number of players declining? Pro or grassroots? Again, i don't have the figures at hand but i don't buy that for a second. </p><p></p><p>You mention Wales shape. Didnt they win 2019 and 2021's six nations? </p><p></p><p>If players from country A have to play in country B at club level, well, i dont really have a problem with that. Not my favourite option but i dont see it as a catastrophe like you portray it. </p><p>If you read these boards you will prolly find out i am by quite some distance one of the most unhappy members of this board when it comes to how things stand. Particularly with regards to eligibility. </p><p>But i dont see evidence to support your claim. </p><p></p><p>Listen, this is not rocket science. You say the current systems are unsustainable. To anaylise something like this is quite simple. </p><p>- You define the term, in detail (unsustainable). </p><p>- you gather evidence (things attendance, viewership, growth of the sport, finances, clubs, etc)</p><p>- See whether the evidence confirms or denies your hypothesis. </p><p></p><p>The evidence that i see doesnt suggest for a second the system in place is unsustainable. It's far from perfect, i don't like a lot of it. But claiming it's not working and that it will collapse? Nah. </p><p>Arg had all pro players playing abroad in 2015 and we made the WC semis. </p><p>We had +90% of our players playing in Jaguares for 2019's WC and we didnt make it past the group stage. I know, it's just one data point, but it's a rather big one. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You wanna know what i think is unsustainable? The growth model 'we' have at a national level. The gap between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is arguably just as big now as it was 10-20 years ago. </p><p>Sport is growing, but i foresee quite a crystal ceiling we will need to deal with. Even in footie's world cup you can see a country ranked #20 beating or drawing with a top 3 every now and then. Japan beating Germany. Costa Rica beating Italy. Cameroon beating Argentina. Rare but it happens. </p><p></p><p>The greatest upset in the history of RWCs was a #8 beating #3 (Japan beating RSA at 2015's RWC). That speaks volumes. </p><p>People eventually get tired of having 20 teams playing a tournament where the same 4-5 teams have a shot. Every-single-time. </p><p>Works wonders with the old school crowd, but that is not how a sport grow. </p><p></p><p>Again, rugby has quite a few problems, some serious. The ones you mention are not on the top of my list.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cruz_del_Sur, post: 1100784, member: 55747"] I still don't see what you mean by sustainable. You are mentining problems, at best. If exporting (outsourcing) players make RU's unsustainable then we fundamentally disagree on the definition. Has the level of rugby declined over the last 10 years? No. Has any of the RU's you mentioned collapsed over the last 10 years? No (SR changed quite a bit but that had to do with covid more than anything). Is rugby's total viewership declining with time? I don't have the numbers at hand but i seriously doubt so. Is the number of players declining? Pro or grassroots? Again, i don't have the figures at hand but i don't buy that for a second. You mention Wales shape. Didnt they win 2019 and 2021's six nations? If players from country A have to play in country B at club level, well, i dont really have a problem with that. Not my favourite option but i dont see it as a catastrophe like you portray it. If you read these boards you will prolly find out i am by quite some distance one of the most unhappy members of this board when it comes to how things stand. Particularly with regards to eligibility. But i dont see evidence to support your claim. Listen, this is not rocket science. You say the current systems are unsustainable. To anaylise something like this is quite simple. - You define the term, in detail (unsustainable). - you gather evidence (things attendance, viewership, growth of the sport, finances, clubs, etc) - See whether the evidence confirms or denies your hypothesis. The evidence that i see doesnt suggest for a second the system in place is unsustainable. It's far from perfect, i don't like a lot of it. But claiming it's not working and that it will collapse? Nah. Arg had all pro players playing abroad in 2015 and we made the WC semis. We had +90% of our players playing in Jaguares for 2019's WC and we didnt make it past the group stage. I know, it's just one data point, but it's a rather big one. You wanna know what i think is unsustainable? The growth model 'we' have at a national level. The gap between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is arguably just as big now as it was 10-20 years ago. Sport is growing, but i foresee quite a crystal ceiling we will need to deal with. Even in footie's world cup you can see a country ranked #20 beating or drawing with a top 3 every now and then. Japan beating Germany. Costa Rica beating Italy. Cameroon beating Argentina. Rare but it happens. The greatest upset in the history of RWCs was a #8 beating #3 (Japan beating RSA at 2015's RWC). That speaks volumes. People eventually get tired of having 20 teams playing a tournament where the same 4-5 teams have a shot. Every-single-time. Works wonders with the old school crowd, but that is not how a sport grow. Again, rugby has quite a few problems, some serious. The ones you mention are not on the top of my list. [/QUOTE]
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