Tackle height lowered in community game by RFU.

[Amiga500]

Should everyone be forced to wear this, or an equivalent?

*note, it is not just another scrum-cap.

 

[Which Tyler]

Should everyone be forced to wear this, or an equivalent?

*note, it is not just another scrum-cap.

IIRC we've discussed it before - it's big on claims, but extremely low on evidence.
IIRC they've "shown" that theirs is better than other scrum caps at doing things that don't seem to change concussion rates; even then with very heavy emphasis that "shown" is not the right word to use.

On top of that, "forced" is... strong

 

[Arcturus]

There is also the counter-argument that (or the perception of) more protection encourages more aggressive hits exacerbating the problem.

 

[TobesHodges]

I read this earlier on the England YouTube highlights of the Ireland game and it’s so true no current player wants these new laws, we know the risks of playing rugby it’s not Tennis or Football.. The integrity of the game has gone, a lot of people leaving rugby after this season and leaving on bad terms.

 

[Which Tyler]

Is that a "no true Scotsman" fallacy I see there?

Oh, and "we know the risks" is clearly untrue, given that our knowledge of the risks have changed dramatically over the last decade - which is kinda the point.

 

[Amiga500]

IIRC we've discussed it before - it's big on claims, but extremely low on evidence.

Research & Development

N-Pro has undergone comprehensive bench testing, simulated conditions-of-use tests, simulated aging tests, fatigue tests, biomechanical tests, three-dimensional finite element computational modelling, plus randomised controlled pre-clinical studies by independent experts and independent test...

www.n-pro.com

Peer reviewed papers in places like the BMJ is not evidence?

 

[Which Tyler]

Research & Development

N-Pro has undergone comprehensive bench testing, simulated conditions-of-use tests, simulated aging tests, fatigue tests, biomechanical tests, three-dimensional finite element computational modelling, plus randomised controlled pre-clinical studies by independent experts and independent test...

www.n-pro.com

Peer reviewed papers in places like the BMJ is not evidence?

A single, brief article, by your paid doctors, that doesn't show real-world applicability, which flew far enough under the radar that it hasn't attracted any comment, or much (if at all) in the way of sharing by professionals - isn't enough to overturn accepted wisdom.

Sorry, 2 articles, with nothing in the last 5 years.

Now if it works, then great, but that's far from being known yet; and advertising bumf isn't enough to "force" "everyone" to wear one.

 

[TobesHodges]

Is that a "no true Scotsman" fallacy I see there?

Oh, and "we know the risks" is clearly untrue, given that our knowledge of the risks have changed dramatically over the last decade - which is kinda the point.

Are you a currently playing and aspiring to play and a decent level?

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm 47, I play touch rugby.
What's that got to do with anything? Other than adding an ad hominem logical fallacy, of course

 

[TobesHodges]

I'm 47, I play touch rugby.
What's that got to do with anything? Other than adding an ad hominem logical fallacy, of course

You’ve played in the best times, imagine being a 20 something and the game being changed completely for the worse, so much so that you don’t actually want to play the sport anymore, what’s next for that 20-25 year old person? Can you understand the frustration of what’s happening to the sport especially at grass roots level?

 

[Which Tyler]

You’ve played in the best times, imagine being a 20 something and the game being changed completely for the worse, so much so that you don’t actually want to play the sport anymore, what’s next for that 20-25 year old person? Can you understand the frustration of what’s happening to the sport especially at grass roots level?

Of course I can.
I also know that concussion is a bad thing, as are repeated, sub-concussive mTBIs.

None of which means that every single player in England (and France and New Zealand; and soon to be, the world) is opposed to these changes.

 

[Amiga500]

A single, brief article, by your paid doctors, that doesn't show real-world applicability, which flew far enough under the radar that it hasn't attracted any comment, or much (if at all) in the way of sharing by professionals - isn't enough to overturn accepted wisdom.

- Authors: Is it any surprise that the authors of the piece are directly involved with the company (and not just paid for the piece)? That's often how spin offs out of university work.
- Comments: The topic of rugby collisions is not a massive one in academia, despite it seeming a massive deal to us. Its not like the headgear can be used in American football, or soccer.
- Professionals: The results of this should be interesting.

 

[Saintjay]

Am i right in thinking that the team relegated from the Championship this season plays community rules next season?

Seems ridiculous we now have pro rules vs community rules.

Also as of the 1st July.

9.11.(b) Ball-carriers must not lower their height significantly before making contact with an opponent in open play.

Love to see the refs interpretation of this one, and loads of people running upright and getting smashed.

 

[Geordiefalcon]

You’ve played in the best times, imagine being a 20 something and the game being changed completely for the worse, so much so that you don’t actually want to play the sport anymore, what’s next for that 20-25 year old person? Can you understand the frustration of what’s happening to the sport especially at grass roots level?

Boxing or kickboxing...? Great sports.

 

[Which Tyler]

Seems ridiculous we now have pro rules vs community rules.

Been that way since... well, at least the introduction of TMOs.
Besides, in all likelihood it'll only be for 1 year before the pro.s join in - a year during the the RFU have to not only act, but be seen to act, and be seen to act based on scientific evidence and consensus.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Been that way since... well, at least the introduction of TMOs.
Besides, in all likelihood it'll only be for 1 year before the pro.s join in - a year during the the RFU have to not only act, but be seen to act, and be seen to act based on scientific evidence and consensus.

There hasn’t actually been different laws until now though. If you ignore the quantity of subs then the same laws are played from top down (bar the juniors), TMOs are just a method of checking those laws.

I’d assumed it was prem and championship playing grown up rugby and then the rest playing kids rugby or ‘community’ as the idiots at the rfu have named it.

 

[Which Tyler]

As it's not a law change, there still won't be different laws

 

[stus768]

As it's not a law change, there still won't be different laws

How’s it not a law change?

 

[Which Tyler]

How’s it not a law change?

To the best of my knowledge, the RFU can't make laws, only WR can do that.
RFU can issue rules, guidelines or clarifications, but not laws.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

To the best of my knowledge, the RFU can't make laws, only WR can do that.
RFU can issue rules, guidelines or clarifications, but not laws.

That’s really being picky for the sake of it.
The RFU in England 100% create a subset of laws that we have to abide to for the community game. That why under 9s rugby for example had different laws depending on the country you play it in (same in most age groups and counties).

So will the championship (if it’s included) be playing the same laws as the premiership? No. They are being governed by a different tackle height law.

That’s why the RFU are so keen to break the community game (as they call it) from the professional one, they want to make it something else.