http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/article/-/12435219/umaga-to-coach-counties-manukau/
Obviously I'm a big Tana Umaga fanboy, but it'll be great to see what he can do with Counties. I hope he is more successful than he was with Toulon.
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Tana Umaga named as Counties Manukau Head Coach
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Obviously I'm a big Tana Umaga fanboy, but it'll be great to see what he can do with Counties. I hope he is more successful than he was with Toulon.
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Same here. I hope he does well.
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I think he'll do better than at Toulon - He was thrown in at the deepend with them, but from coaching then and then as a player coach afterwards he'll have learnt a lot more
Will be interesting to see how he goes!
Will be interesting to see how he goes!
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In some ways I agree with that, and in others I don't.
Umaga has been in a player/coach position for the last four or so years, so it's not too big a step up. Not to mention he captained the All Blacks and has been involved in professional rugby for 15 years (which may have set him up better than coaches who are only used to grass roots level). He was also appointed assistant coach of Counties last season, so he is the natural choice. In general I agree though, often the best coaches are the ones who earned their way up from the lowest tier. Regardless, it's not quite the same as chucking a former captain of a winning team as head coach of the natural side (eg Martin Johnson).
I think Coaches are better having learned and perfected their craft to a point rather than bumbling and fumbling at a high level first. Take over a U19's or a Colts or even a Club Prems then at the very least spend either a significant time in the domestic comp OR have significant success. Irrespective of what you were as a player. Who's to say that Martin Johnson wouldn't have been a major force in coaching if he hadn't gone straight into it.
I'm pretty sure Graham Henry, Jake White, Clive Woodward, Rod Macqueen et al would have loved to have been Great Test Players as well.
I'm just hoping that Counties can do a Turbos and turn it all around.
There are plenty of players who are now coaching first class rugby off nothing more than being introduced to a coaching enviroment at top level. Mark Hammett, Todd Blackadder, Andy Farrell, Martin Johnson, Pat Lam, Jamie Joseph, Wayne Smith, Steve Hansen, Robbie Deans, John Kirwan, John Mitchell, Mike Catt, Ian McGeechan, Steve McDowell, Phillipe Saint-Andre, Jeff Wilson, Collin Cooper, Isitolo Maka etc. Coaches are more often than not recruited from either national, provincial or professional club's academies. It seems strange to say Tana Umaga is less deserving than those coaches of a position of head coach of an NPC team, when so many of the formentioned coaches had even less experience before taking on even higher positions.
Umaga has after all been assistant coach of Toulon, head coach of Toulon and most recently assistant coach of Counties Manukau. I have a feelling that it's his very impressive profile as a player that seperates him from the acceptance that Todd Blackadder receives coaching the Crusaders.
I haven't said that he hasn't been accepted. I've accepted him, he's got a huge amount of respect from the Counties Boys & Union, I just think Head Coaches are better when having not only a player's experience (at whatever level) but also to ground out some coaching experience in a lower role before they take up a Premier team. Using Blackadder as the example: after retiring he was in the position of being an assistant to the Forwards Coach of Scotland (I think), then Forwards Coach. I think Pat Lam & Mark Hammett were in the same boat.
If anything, having that grounding of experience will serve the coaches when they go through the rough times. Because if they fail - what hope do the players have?
But the transition that Blackadder made is pretty much identical to Umaga's. That's why I used him as an example. He was assistant coach with Edinburgh (as Umaga was to Toulon) and then went on to coach Tasman after a year or so of the Canterbury coaching environment, and then was made coach of Canterbury. What's the difference between him doing that and Umaga going from Assistant coach of Toulon, head coach of Toulon, assistant coach of Counties and now head coach of Counties? I don't see the difference.
I do get what you are saying, and I do agree to a certain extent, but since the game has gone professional, and there is such a divide between amateur and professional rugby, and the set up doesn't really allow for that to change. In England it's a little different to a large extent (more evident in football than in rugby), you still get heaps of professional players going to coach at the top level (Mike Catt, Andy Farrell etc), but the amateur game is more comparable because if you impress enough in a low devision, your club eventually gets promoted or you get signed by a club in a higher devision such as the championship (in both rugby and football), and if you impress enough their your club either gets promoted to the premiership or you get signed by a Premiership team (often in an assistant position). Stuart Lancaster is a good example, getting noticed with on again/off again Championship/Premiership side Leeds to eventually get the role of the Saxons and now England's National Team (for now).
In New Zealand, the bridges between Professional and Amateur rugby makes it considerably harder to compare coaches. Graham Henry would be lucky to get a spot with the Auckland if he started his career now. The way coaches in NZ get selected is by applying for NZ academies to learn coaching, and former pro's seem to get the most positions.
I think it's me showing my age. I prefer my coaches like my players to have served some type of apprenticeship, develop their coaching abilities/techniques to a higher level (Steve Hansen being the prime example) rather than come straight from Premier level Rugby or higher and going straight into higher level coaching. For every solid example their are plenty of failures (Craig Dowd, Jeff Wilson, (NRL) Nathan Brown & Brad Fitler) my hopes are that Counties and Tana will do well, but if they fail that it's not from lessons that should've been learnt earlier in their development.
For me it's like the Hammett situation (as much as I know about it), if he had a little bit more time under his belt maybe (it's a big maybe) he could've found a way to keep his players.* The Graham Henry of now is vastly different from the Auckland NPC Graham Henry and Blues Henry.
*Not that I'm complaining about having Ma'a & Piri
For me it's like the Hammett situation (as much as I know about it), if he had a little bit more time under his belt maybe (it's a big maybe) he could've found a way to keep his players.* The Graham Henry of now is vastly different from the Auckland NPC Graham Henry and Blues Henry.
*Not that I'm complaining about having Ma'a & Piri
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