Teams capable of winning the 2013 Heineken Cup

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just wondering what teams you think are capable of winning the HC next year.

As we saw yesterday Leinster are about a level ahead of Ulster but this, in my opinion, doesn't mean Ulster aren't capable of winning as they could win without having to beat Leinster and they are capable of beating Leinster as well.

Anyway here are the teams I think can do it:

Leinster - It'll be very hard to go three in a row but they look as if they can beat anyone.
Clermont - Second best after Leinster at the moment.
Ulster - above
Toulouse - If they can get back on form they can beat anyone.
Munster - They're too stubborn to go away. If they can get their forwards going again they can do it.
Leicester - Look to be improving big time.

Teams who aren't far away:

Northampton - A good out half away from being a class act.
Toulon - Need a good coach and more desire to win.
Biarittz - They're good in Europe and they've finally tasted success, dark horses.
Scarlets - They have the players, just need to click.
Edinburgh - Did a great job this year, I can't see them doing it but I didn't see them getting into the Amlin last year.

 

[Me 1]

Just wondering what teams you think are capable of winning the HC next year.

As we saw yesterday Leinster are about a level ahead of Ulster but this, in my opinion, doesn't mean Ulster aren't capable of winning as they could win without having to beat Leinster and they are capable of beating Leinster as well.

Anyway here are the teams I think can do it:

Leinster - It'll be very hard to go three in a row but they look as if they can beat anyone.
Clermont - Second best after Leinster at the moment.
Ulster - above
Toulouse - If they can get back on form they can beat anyone.
Munster - They're too stubborn to go away. If they can get their forwards going again they can do it.
Leicester - Look to be improving big time.

Teams who aren't far away:

Northampton - A good out half away from being a class act.
Toulon - Need a good coach and more desire to win.
Biarittz - They're good in Europe and they've finally tasted success, dark horses.
Scarlets - They have the players, just need to click.
Edinburgh - Did a great job this year, I can't see them doing it but I didn't see them getting into the Amlin last year.

Argh, we're going to need a tougher tight 5 first before we're at that level. Guess we'll just have to see who we sign over the summer.

Thanks for putting us as the best Welsh team though

 

[Feicarsinn]

You're being awfully kind on a lot of teams there. At the moment I'd have ourselves, Toulouse and Clermont down as the only serious competitors, with Montpellier, Ulster and Leicester having an outside chance. I'd be surprised if anyone else was in the reckoning.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sale Sharks will win. You heard it here first.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Sale Sharks will win. You heard it here first.

Christ, imagine if Tony Buckley had three Heineken Cup medals. That'd be it for me and rugby.

 

[Draggs]

Sale Sharks will win. You heard it here first.

And last.

Turks have no chance. If I had to put my money on a Welsh team, it would be the Ospreys.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And last.

Yup, next time you hear it it'll be "Sale Sharks have won".

 

[dullonien]

If the Ospreys can continue to build then they could be serious contenders next year. They've got one of the strongest forward packs in Europe, and still will without Paul James next season. I think they'll give Leinster a much sterner test in next weeks Rabo12 final, than Ulster did yesterday. I know this has been said year after year, but I think something has changed recently, with a team ethos developing that hasn't been apparent before.

The Scarlets simply don't have a pack capable of winning against the big boys of the HC. They might make it through to the quarters if they can recruit a few new players, but will probably come up short against the real big guns.

 

[M Two One]

Ospreys I can definitely agree on, but Toulon will never win a major European trophy with their current squad.

Biarritz won eight of their last ten matches in all competitions to end the season. Their problems from the beginning stemmed from inexperienced players leading a team completely depleted of their core talent during the RWC. As of now they have a shot at winning the H-Cup next season, but I doubt they would win it unless they can start scoring more tries and rely less on Yachvili. Their problems lie more in their backs than their forwards with needed improvements at the center and wing positions. I would also like to see them bring in a star fullback. The club has absolutely no need to improve their fly-half and scrum-half positions other than to look to the future.

 

[Draggs]

Agree entirely M.
Look at the Ospreys, once they cleared out their 'stars' they actually started playing like a team.
I still see Toulon as a Barbarians team that plays in the Top14. Was it 2011 where Toulon did not contribute a single player to the French Six Nations squad?
How good are Toulon at actually bringing player through?

 

[Aedaphon]

Wasps resurgence? Oh wait... :lol:

 

[munstermuffin]

Call me crazy but I think Leinster will flop next season. They're on road too long and vital guys are at wrong age. BOD and D'Arcy are pushing on and Cullen hasnt got it as much any more and Thorn is gone so the 2nd row will be an issue. And I think ye are due 1 or 2 really testing injuries.

 

[dullonien]

and unlike Ulster who haven't beaten Leinster for yonks , the Ospreys have done the double over Leinster this season including a 27-3 trouncing on the first day of the season

losing Paul James is unfortunate and hurts depth, but Bevington is a good scrummager too, as you Dullonien have said before

however the Ospreys ERC Ranking is only in the second tier, and we can't have the Cardiff Blues (whichever second seed gets them as the top seed in the pool will be happy), we will have to draw one of Leinster, Toulouse, Munster, Biarritz or Leicester, making a home quarter final hard

but at least there aren't any more groups as stupid as the 2005/06 pool of Leicester, Stade Français (at their peak), Ospreys and Clermont, that was probably the biggest group of death ever

They also have Duncan Jones. They won't be quite as strong next year though without Paul James and Huw Bennett. However they've now got Ian Evans playing at his best, something they didn't have during the HC this season.

Their backrow is also strong, and well balanced. Tipuric is up there as one of the best opensides in the NH, and is improving all the time. I honestly think Ryan Jones has been playing as well as anyone at 6, whilst Bearman and Stowers still have a lot to give imo.

The backline aint shabby either. Shane and Bowe will be difficult to replace, but Dirksen has been fantastic this season (probably better than Shane or Bowe's Ospreys form for a good couple of seasons). The other wing spot will be hard to fill mind, and I'm still not completely sold on Fussell at fullback despite his epic performance against Munster last week. Haven't even talked about my current obsession Ashley Beck yet! A lot will hinge on Biggar maintaining his current level of performance, or Matthew Morgan progressing.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Call me crazy but I think Leinster will flop next season. They're on road too long and vital guys are at wrong age. BOD and D'Arcy are pushing on and Cullen hasnt got it as much any more and Thorn is gone so the 2nd row will be an issue. And I think ye are due 1 or 2 really testing injuries.

Like missing BOD for the entire pool stage

Aside from perhaps the second row, I have no concern about this Leinster side at all. Every position has an established player competing with a younger player for a start. The squad depth is immense, as witnessed by our impressive form in the Rabo this year so we'd have to suffer about 10 injuries serious injuries for me to think we were out of contention

 

[Jockstap]

Like missing BOD for the entire pool stage

Aside from perhaps the second row, I have no concern about this Leinster side at all. Every position has an established player competing with a younger player for a start. The squad depth is immense, as witnessed by our impressive form in the Rabo this year so we'd have to suffer about 10 injuries serious injuries for me to think we were out of contention

Still as you say second row is a big problem, there will be no tighthead lock next year unless Leinster sign somebody. Thorn was immense yesterday, the guy is king at clearing out the rucks and providing quick ball. That's an area Ireland in general are really stuck for quality. The closest thing to a Thorn/Hines we have is Touhy but as he obviously grieviously insulted Deccie at some stage we'll never see him in a green shirt. I'd love to see Leinster go after Caldwell over the summer, any chance of that happening?

 

[munstermuffin]

Sorry Feic I meant in the pack re injuries.
Like I think in the pack Heaslip, SOB and few others are going too long like between Summer Tests and that I just feel it'll take it's toll and the likes of Jennings, BOD, D'Arcy, Cullen and to a lesser extent Ross are really going to have time catch up and the bodies will feel it more. Now I not saying Leinster will be bad full stop but just struggle as it hard to keep going. Noone can deny they're the best team ever in HEC history but it just way it'll go. Biggest fear I'd have for Leinster is when Schmidt goes though as he is vital cog. And I think he will go back to NZ eventually as he will be All Blacks coach in time and did I read he gets frustrated with IRFU policy so won't want Irish job

 

[coonor]

Ospreys are playing well but at h-cup level I don't think they will have the consistency or know how in order to win, however they certainly could cause some upsets.

I would never count Munster out but like The Ospreys I don't think they can keep up any kind off form that would make them capable of winning.

I think Leicester could come back strong but in terms of the h-cup, I don know whether they have the dynamism or players with composed heads to win. However if they can stay clear of Leinster they can defiantly pull it off.

I think Ulster could come back strong and full of determination, with what looks to be an improving squad and depending on their new coaches ability to settle in, they could easily win the competition especially if the competition means teams have to travel to Ravenhill.

Clermont have the star quality but don't appear to have the efficiency as Leinster do, and I think they lack a ten that can control them. Having said that they could defiantly make it there.

At the moment I think Leinster are in the best position for next year. If they continue at the standard they are currently then I can see no other team toppling them. Also if they have home knock out stages, I can't see anyone beating them. Their squad depth is immense and contrary to what you say MM, I would argue that Leinsters key players are now a days the likes of Heaslip and Sexton rather than Cullen and Darcy. O'Driscoll is obviously getting on abit but he looks as fit and wise as ever and his maturity gives our backline a special edge for big games that I don't think other teams have.

 

[Feicarsinn]

This is hilarious, Leinster written off literally one day after winning the thing by a record margin. Pull the other one.

 

[munstermuffin]

I crazy I know just have a feeling. And winner will probably be French

 

[04perryo]

Who cares about 2013, 2014 Heineken Cup Champions has to be Worcester Warriors i mean who else is going to be able to beat them?