Telegraph Pacific Island Player Drain Article

[Peat]

Is that an IRB thing, or the RFU not sharing revenue?

I may be looking at it through rose (hehe) tinted glasses, but I feel that the RFU make enough money that they could/would spare a cut of the revenue to help Samoa out.

Believe there is a set portion of revenue that the away team gets during the window, then the home team pays a match fee to teams outside of the window.

 

[nickdnz]

I share the same view as you but the case with PI nations is the restrictions put on players that choose to turn out for us is unfair. It is easier for a player to play for a country that has a professional league without the threat of contracts been terminated if he turns out for his country of heritage, a recent case is Ben Tameifuna.

Why would Tameifuna - a guy who was born in Auckland - choosing to have another go playing for the All Blacks - be unfair to Tonga?

As we have seen with many Tongan/Samoan/Fijian players, the myth that their contracts are in danger if they are selected for a PI team, is garbage. The NZRU don't count them with any foreign player restriction. Mahonri Schwalger, Jack Lam, Alapati Leiua, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, TJ Ioane, Ahsee Tuala etc, etc, etc all had NZ contracts in the last two years. Many players such as Leiua, Lam, Tikoirotuma get better offers from English, French and Japanese clubs, and without the possibility of being selected for the All Blacks choose to leave to earn more money. Tonga and Samoa already benefit from NZ player system, so I'd hardly call not being able to select players that your union had nothing to do with developing, as unfair.

 

[Tautahi]

Why would Tameifuna - a guy who was born in Auckland - choosing to have another go playing for the All Blacks - be unfair to Tonga?

As we have seen with many Tongan/Samoan/Fijian players, the myth that their contracts are in danger if they are selected for a PI team, is garbage. The NZRU don't count them with any foreign player restriction. Mahonri Schwalger, Jack Lam, Alapati Leiua, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, TJ Ioane, Ahsee Tuala etc, etc, etc all had NZ contracts in the last two years. Many players such as Leiua, Lam, Tikoirotuma get better offers from English, French and Japanese clubs, and without the possibility of being selected for the All Blacks choose to leave to earn more money. Tonga and Samoa already benefit from NZ player system, so I'd hardly call not being able to select players that your union had nothing to do with developing, as unfair.

http://www.frequency.com/video/nzru-stop-ben-tameifuna-from-playing-for/202703253
Ben Tameifuna clearly had put his name down for Tonga but was threatened with a his contract being ripped up because he would be in breach of the Loyalty agreement he signed. At the end of the day it's up to the player right and these guys see themselves as Pacific Islanders as much as they are kiwis. I can go on about how many players should play for Tonga and you can go on about the millions spent on developing these players. As much as we benefit from NZRU you benefit from us. Players leave overseas cause their is more opportunity for them as representatives of their Island nation.

 

[Shaggy]

Is that an IRB thing, or the RFU not sharing revenue?

I may be looking at it through rose (hehe) tinted glasses, but I feel that the RFU make enough money that they could/would spare a cut of the revenue to help Samoa out.

Sorry, yes, it's a WR (IRb ) thing that dates back to the amateur days - the home team paid for the costs of the travelling team, and got all of the revenue from the games in return.

As the article suggests, there is a reciprocal arrangement most of the time, which is why the 6N teams tour south in July, but Samoa don't seem to get that.

This arrangement only applies to tests in the two test windows, hence why the All Blacks usually try to play one test just before or after the November window, where they negotiate some of the revenue (USA in Chicago, The Wallabies in Hong Kong, Japan in Japan) ... I was reading that (and I wouldn't know where the article is, sorry), that while the USA match this year was worth while, the most they've made from a single match, was playing against England outside of the window, a few years ago.

 

[Voltron]

http://www.frequency.com/video/nzru-stop-ben-tameifuna-from-playing-for/202703253
Ben Tameifuna clearly had put his name down for Tonga but was threatened with a his contract being ripped up because he would be in breach of the Loyalty agreement he signed. At the end of the day it's up to the player right and these guys see themselves as Pacific Islanders as much as they are kiwis. I can go on about how many players should play for Tonga and you can go on about the millions spent on developing these players. As much as we benefit from NZRU you benefit from us. Players leave overseas cause their is more opportunity for them as representatives of their Island nation.

Saying he might have his contract ripped up if he plays for tonga is a bit disingenuous, if he has his contract revoked it is because by playing for Tonga he has breached said contract. I don't see any issue with the NZRU making a contract with them contingent on the player remain loyal to the NZRU, provided they have an interest in that player as an international.

I agree with you about players heading overseas for more opportunities though. I mean, Tamiefuna is a classic example, wanting to go elsewhere for the chance to play internationals rather than remaining in the country where he was born, raised and played all his rugby. That's what you meant, right?

 

[Tautahi]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...1/Chiefs-Tim-Nanai-Williams-to-play-for-Samoa

No one ain't going to stop these players from playing international rugby."I'm Kiwi born, but I am also a proud Samoan. That blue jersey is the same to me as an All Blacks one to be honest." you can't take away the fact these guys are proud ISLANDERS AS THEY ARE KIWIS.

 

[Muzzy]

What do you guys think about this? http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9383495,00.html

 

[Shaggy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...1/Chiefs-Tim-Nanai-Williams-to-play-for-Samoa

No one ain't going to stop these players from playing international rugby."I'm Kiwi born, but I am also a proud Samoan. That blue jersey is the same to me as an All Blacks one to be honest." you can't take away the fact these guys are proud ISLANDERS AS THEY ARE KIWIS.

That's true ... They are free to choose who they want to play for. The only issue I have is that TNW already chose when he chose to play sevens for NZ, and is exploiting the loop hole of the sevens in the olympics.

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing for PI rugby, as it's a two way street. Any current PI test player, could theoretically play for the NZ sevens team if they have a NZ passport, and then play for the all blacks in a fifteen aside test, after playing the four sevens tournament ... So we could back to the scenario like we had with Frank Bunce, where Manu Samoa had him first, then he shifted allegiances to the All Blacks
@Muzzy ... Not sure if it's totally good or totally bad, if the players are free to choose to play for Fiji, without being penalized, then it's probably a good thing for both the players and Fiji

 

[smartcooky]

I haven't clicked on the article, but I do get slightly sad about seeing guys who could represent Tonga/Samoa/Fiji playing for others, because they could be fantastic sides, but aren't. The reason why is that they have an insufficient professional infrastructure, but the number of top players who have a choice and choose others (which is very much the norm) is a direct offshoot of that. How many guys like Tuilagi and Fekitoa would pick the countries they lived in for a long time if it wasn't a flat out bad choice compared to their other possible choice? How much better would the Pacific 3 be if they could get players like that and provide them with real support?

Not saying that guys like Tuilagi and Fekitoa don't have every right to play for the country they do, to feel whatever identity they feel and so on - nevermind guys like Kaino who've grown up only knowing one country. But I can totally understand how people wistfully think "What would it be like if it was different". I wonder that too.

As noted, it's not like the Pacific Islands do too bad out of this. New Zealand give a huge number of players to Samoa. England have already given Fiji the Matavesi brothers and trained up the latest Stanley for Samoa - plus maybe they'll get the next generation of Tuilagis.

Well let me clue you up

3rd player in: Keven Mealamu, born in New Zealand and plays for New Zealand - talent drain?

4th player in: Charlie Faumuina: Born in New Zealand and plays for New Zealand - talent drain?

6th player in: Sébastien Vahaamahina, born in New Caledonia and plays for France - how can he be a talent drain from a country that doesn't even play rugby (not on the iRB list of 102 countries)

What ever credibility they still had after player four was wiped out by player 6!!!

However, its good to see that the standard of British Sports Journalism hasn't fallen any further since the last time I had a rant about it.... but that is likely because there is no further for it to fall.

 

[Mikel92]

Ahh, Stephen Jones use to really club New Zealand like a baby seal about this. Not sure if he's still doing it these days, haven't heard much of his drivel in awhile. I guess it was a defence mechanism against the best team in the world. The 'drain' has sort of reversed in recent times, with a lot of Northern teams 'poaching' some players of their own. Haven't really heard much from Jones about that one. Funny that.

If I did have to sympathize with that argument though, it would be nice to see players at the very least grow up in that country that they're playing for. And by grow up there, I don't just mean 3 years on a million dollar contract. Just seems a bit daft how some players can be like "well I've lived here 5 minutes, may as well play for the national side".

Although what I will say is that elements of this argument can get pretty ignorant. Especially from idiots like Jones. They take players who are born in New Zealand and use them or their grandparents to reach conclusions, which is ridiculous. As Smartcooky pointed out, Faumuina and Kevy were born here. But I don't think some critics out there in the media realize that. "Oh he's a darkie so he must be from the Islands".

 

[Jaguares]

They literally get two people in before they shoot themselves in the foot:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...d-talent-drain-in-pictures.html?frame=3109605

also Matt Toomua and Rokodoguni aren't Matt Toomua and Rokodoguni

Ohhhh, I thought Matt grew 20 centimeters and 30 kgs increased :lol:

 

[Pockets]

It really does.

Does anyone here follow any other sports closely enough to comment on their relative quality of journalism?

Motorsports generally has far better coverage, but rarely hits the mainstream other than F1. Some of the mainstream coverage of that can be bland and full of puff pieces, but even then it's far better than the uninformed **** that most rugby stuff is. Football is generally a sea of ****, with the occasional really good article.

 

[smartcooky]

Ahh, Stephen Jones use to really club New Zealand like a baby seal about this. Not sure if he's still doing it these days, haven't heard much of his drivel in awhile. I guess it was a defence mechanism against the best team in the world. The 'drain' has sort of reversed in recent times, with a lot of Northern teams 'poaching' some players of their own. Haven't really heard much from Jones about that one. Funny that.

If I did have to sympathize with that argument though, it would be nice to see players at the very least grow up in that country that they're playing for. And by grow up there, I don't just mean 3 years on a million dollar contract. Just seems a bit daft how some players can be like "well I've lived here 5 minutes, may as well play for the national side".

Although what I will say is that elements of this argument can get pretty ignorant. Especially from idiots like Jones. They take players who are born in New Zealand and use them or their grandparents to reach conclusions, which is ridiculous. As Smartcooky pointed out, Faumuina and Kevy were born here. But I don't think some critics out there in the media realize that. "Oh he's a darkie so he must be from the Islands".

Mike, I think people like Stephen Jones & Eddie Butler subconsciously think of New Zealand as a "white" country (due to the historical connections with the British Empire and our colonial past), even though they actually do know that it is not. They can't help themselves. It was Eddie Butler who embarrassed himself on a NZ rugby programme (The Tight Five) some years ago when he accused the All Blacks of poaching Piri Weepu from Samoa, and it sort of pulled the carpet out from under him when Tony Johnson pointed out to him that Weepu was a Maori, and born in NZ (Lower Hutt).

I also think that they have rather fallen silent on this issue now that teams in the Home Nations and France are having more and more foreign players in their national teams, and we're talking about adult professional players who were lured to their countries with the offer of bigger pay packets, and end up turning out in their national teams; something that has only rarely happened here.