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Test Match 2: All Blacks v British & Irish Lions (Wellington)

rugby_mad

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my dream match day 23..

1. Joe Moody
2. Codie Taylor
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. TJ Perenara
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Rieko Ioane
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Anton Lienart-Brown
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Israel Dagg

16. Nathan Harris
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Vaea Fifita
20. Ardie Savea
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Jodie Barrett
 

Caitlyn Jenner

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my dream match day 23..

1. Joe Moody
2. Codie Taylor
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. TJ Perenara
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Rieko Ioane
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Anton Lienart-Brown
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Israel Dagg

16. Nathan Harris
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Vaea Fifita
20. Ardie Savea
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Jodie Barrett
I think your 23 is pretty much on point except for Jordie. As we know, when Cruden comes on Beaudy goes to fullback, and likewise if we sub a wing... Dagg will go to the wing, Beaudy to fullback. So we don't need fullback cover on the bench. What we do need is midfield cover. Hence, Laumape should and probs will be our no.23 IMO. Hansen said players from the Canes game will still be in contention for the test, so he will be available. Given this is the case, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Bus back on the left wing with Rieko on the right, especially if he plays well for the Canes.

*EDIT*
Just noticed that you have TJ ahead of Aaron. Also disagree with this, as I have explained further down in this thread.
 
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rugby_mad

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I think your 23 is pretty much on point except for Jordie. As we know, when Cruden comes on Beaudy goes to fullback, and likewise if we sub a wing... Dagg will go to the wing, Beaudy to fullback. So we don't need fullback cover on the bench. What we do need is midfield cover. Hence, Laumape should and probs will be our no.23 IMO. Hansen said players from the Canes game will still be in contention for the test, so he will be available. Given this is the case, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Bus back on the left wing with Rieko on the right, especially if he plays well for the Canes.
sound possible.. recall Jordie played centre, so it would make sense for Jordie whom appears more versatile than Laumape and Julian Savea
 

NDC89

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What is people's opinion on Perenara vs Smith? It's not long since Smith was widely (and rightly) regarded as the best SH in the world, but for me, over the last year Perenara seems to have overtaken him. His support lines are ion a whole other level imo. Though I do have a bias towards faster, more attacking SHs.

As fr the Lions, I would like to see...

1. McGrath
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Farrell
11. Daly
12. Te'o
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

16. Owens
17. M Vunipola
18. Sinkler
19. Lawes/Henderson (Whoever is better on Tuesday)
20. Stander
21. Webb (Use him if we need to chase the game!)
22. Russell (Same as above, he won't be there though)
23. Joseph


Don't expect Russell or Joseph to make it though.
 

MarkyH

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I'd make a few changes, and the just scream sensible changes to make.

Itoje for AWJ. Lawes on bench

Sexton swap for Farrell

Stander for Warbs on bench, even Stander for POM (which is harsh on him but we need difference) and Tips on bench.

Mako and George as finishers, start Owens and McGrath

JJ for Halfpenny on bench
 

Caitlyn Jenner

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What is people's opinion on Perenara vs Smith? It's not long since Smith was widely (and rightly) regarded as the best SH in the world, but for me, over the last year Perenara seems to have overtaken him. His support lines are ion a whole other level imo. Though I do have a bias towards faster, more attacking SHs.
I honestly believe that Perenara is now a better player. Over the last year his form has been something else. A year and a half ago I wouldn't have thought it possible that someone would be able to touch Smith so soon, but his form did drop after 'the incident' and TJ has been consistently superb.

That being said, Smith is still a great player and is looking more and more like his old self. He was very good on the weekend. I reckon that he should still the the number one halfback because his game is so vital to the ABs' game. His distribution from the ruck is 2nd to none, which enables us to maintain our trademark high-tempo game and gives Barrett more time to do his thing. On top of that, Perenara is the perfect guy to have coming off the bench later on with his physicality, skill-set and incredible support play. The Smith starting / Perenara off the bench combo is perfect imo.

So, I do think that Perenara has, at this point, over taken Smith as the best halfback in NZ and the world, but Smith is right there with him and I still think that he is the right man to have starting.
 

NDC89

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Sound logic to hope to have him off the bench, must be slightly frustrating for players like that to have to sit on the bench when they are possibly better than the starter simply due to bench impact options. Seems like a similar situation to Hartley and George for England at Hooker.
 

smartcooky

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my dream match day 23..

1. Joe Moody
2. Codie Taylor
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. TJ Perenara
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Rieko Ioane
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Anton Lienart-Brown
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Israel Dagg

16. Nathan Harris
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Vaea Fifita
20. Ardie Savea
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Jodie Barrett
Agree with everything except Smith and Peranara. TJP's different way of playing and his ability to change the game up around the breakdown area gives him more value as an impact player than the other way around.

I have no problem with Jordie on the bench. He can kick with either foot, he can cover left and right wing and fullback, and his preference is in the midfield (he played 12 for a season at Canterbury).
 

The Alpha Bro

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Start Sexton and JJ or bust imo. Garland got all he could out of Warren ball and fell very short, time to get creative players in to take advantage of the defensive frailties NZ showed.
 

munstermuffin

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For Lions based off XV for Canes game it's looking like

Mako
George
Furling
AWJ
Itoje
Warburton
SOB
Faletau
Murray
Farrell
Watson
Te'o
Davies
Daly
Williams
 

Mrs. Peter Quinn

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I'd make a few changes, and the just scream sensible changes to make.

Itoje for AWJ. Lawes on bench

Sexton swap for Farrell

Stander for Warbs on bench, even Stander for POM (which is harsh on him but we need difference) and Tips on bench.

Mako and George as finishers, start Owens and McGrath

JJ for Halfpenny on bench
Mostly agree with this. If nothing else, Jones has just played too many minutes and looks beat. I'd really like Henderson involved in some way in this next test - when he's in the zone he's a completely beast and we need his physicality out there. But I also agree Lawes is deserving. Personally I'd seriously consider dropping Kruis, not as a punishment or anything because bad games happen, but I think we need to be smarter with the selection. My locks would be Itoje, Henderson and Lawes. Henderson off the bench can also come into the back row and we also know Itoje can switch to play there. For that reason I'd go straight for Tipuric on the bench because he brings entirely different qualities to the starting back row (which I would keep the same, probably) as well as the physicality of Itoje and Henderson.

Those are the most straight forward changes. The front row has me really confused right now. Furlong should probably keep the starting spot but I'm less sure about Vunipola. In truth I'm torn between any of the looseheads apart from Dell. I think I'd go with Irish props with George.

I don't know about the backs but would like Sexton.

I'll have a stab:

1. McGrath
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Henderson
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Faletau

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Daly
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Williams

16. Owens
17. Vunipola
18. Sinkler
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Webb
22. Farrell
23. Payne
 
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munstermuffin

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Start Sexton and JJ or bust imo. Garland got all he could out of Warren ball and fell very short, time to get creative players in to take advantage of the defensive frailties NZ showed.
The tact JJ playing Tuesday I guess rules him out or limits it. I think it's looking like a 'as you were with Warburton coming in' and Itoje
 

munstermuffin

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Must add as a Munster fan, my biggest gripe wouldn't be POM getting dropped even though he doesn't deserve it more it's a disgrace Warburton is staying in 23 dispite no fitness, form and he was awful when he came on. Add in the ignorance of not even playing him Tuesday to get him game time
 

The Oggmonster

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Must add as a Munster fan, my biggest gripe wouldn't be POM getting dropped even though he doesn't deserve it more it's a disgrace Warburton is staying in 23 dispite no fitness, form and he was awful when he came on. Add in the ignorance of not even playing him Tuesday to get him game time
Agree completely. It was a huge risk selecting an injured player and naming him tour captain. A risk that hasn't at all paid off. I'm also disappointed that Lawes also could be out of contention given that he's starting on Tuesday. I'd have him coming in for AWJ and Tipuric or Stander coming in for Warburton.
 

Mrs. Peter Quinn

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The tact JJ playing Tuesday I guess rules him out or limits it. I think it's looking like a 'as you were with Warburton coming in' and Itoje
Hope it's not as simple as that, otherwise Henderson and Lawes who I think should both feature on Saturday, will also be out of the running since they're both starting.
 

NDC89

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See I think Sexton has looked completely off the pace and out of form all tour. Depending on Biggar's performance on Tuesday he might not even make my 23. Not saying Biggar is a better player than Sexton, just in better form atm. Shame really as Sexton playing well would be an automatic starter really.
 

mosfeldt

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Anyone else kinda wanna see Best play? I know, he can have the odd dodgy throw when he's under pressure (as in every time Best goes up to line a throw I **** myself), but he is great in the loose and IMO very good at the breakdown. Could be what we need. Not contesting the breakdown and just letting the ABs play with quick ball clearly was clearly a bad idea... would love to see some Tips as well.

Btw I don't even feel that bad after losing. Obviously it's kinda disappointing, the narrative and the story that would've been built after a victory here would've been amazing. But at the same time you just have hand it to the ABs. Absolute beauty to watch. Retallick and Whitelock are such a terrifying partnership, love em. Is there any team in any other sport that has a record as successful as theirs?
 
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NDC89

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Anyone else kinda wanna see Best play? I know, he can have the odd dodgy throw when he's under pressure (as in every time Best goes up to line a throw I **** myself), but he is great in the loose and IMO very good at the breakdown. Could be what we need. Not contesting the breakdown and just letting the ABs play with quick ball clearly was clearly a bad idea... would love to see some Tips as well.

Btw I don't even feel that bad after losing. Obviously it's kinda disappointing, the narrative and the story that would've been built after a victory here would've been amazing. But at the same time you just have hand it to the ABs. Absolute beauty to watch. Is there any team in any other sport that has a record as successful as theirs?
Wouldn't mind seeing Tips, really brings something different than any other British Flanker. Plays a bit like Hooper I suppose. He would shine in Southern Hemisphere rugby, bit wasted with Gatland though.

Best seems to have the same issue as Sexton, he just hasn't performed well this tour, where as George and Owens have.
 

Caitlyn Jenner

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Is there any team in any other sport that has a record as successful as theirs?
From memory, I actually don't think there is. I think the USA basketball team might be the closest.
 
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TBeastT

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my dream match day 23..

1. Joe Moody
2. Codie Taylor
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. TJ Perenara
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Rieko Ioane
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Anton Lienart-Brown
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Israel Dagg

16. Nathan Harris
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Vaea Fifita
20. Ardie Savea
21. Aaron Smith
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Jodie Barrett
I really want Fifita to get game time, I seriously rate him, he's excellent, but I can't see him overtaking Barrett and Romano.
I think your 23 is pretty much on point except for Jordie. As we know, when Cruden comes on Beaudy goes to fullback, and likewise if we sub a wing... Dagg will go to the wing, Beaudy to fullback. So we don't need fullback cover on the bench. What we do need is midfield cover. Hence, Laumape should and probs will be our no.23 IMO. Hansen said players from the Canes game will still be in contention for the test, so he will be available. Given this is the case, I also wouldn't be surprised to see Bus back on the left wing with Rieko on the right, especially if he plays well for the Canes.

*EDIT*
Just noticed that you have TJ ahead of Aaron. Also disagree with this, as I have explained further down in this thread.
On what you're saying about Jordie shouldn't be on the bench as FB cover isn't needed, the same went for the Samoa game but he was still in then. Hansen clearly really rates Jordie and I can't see Laumape getting in over him. Would've thought it'll be Jordie 23 with Ioane acting as centre cover and ALB able to shift inwards if need as well.
 
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