The 2015 Southern Hemisphere Rugby Season

[TRF_heineken]

Okay, so us SH posters have gone into a slumber for a little over a month or so.

I know all the Saffa guys like myself haven't been on this forum for the last 2/3 weeks, being on holiday and migrating to the coastal areas.

So with this said, I thought this thread could be used to wake a few of the guys up, and get slowly back into the rythm of posting again on the forum.

Are you guys as excited as I am about the jam-packed 2015 calendar? It will be the first time that there's going to be a Rugby Championship in a World Cup year. Argentina will have the benefit of playing SA, NZ, Aus before the start of the world cup, something that will most probably give them an advantage which they haven't had in the past.

On a personal note, I'm really looking forward to the Bulls Super Rugby Campaign. They have a new kit (no more camo or pink jerseys), they will have a bunch of old stalwarts returning from long term injuries, and will have a brand new backline which shows a lot of promise.

The end of this month the SA teams will start their campaigns with 1 or 2 training matches before the start of the Super Rugby tournament. And this year it's extra important to do well, with the RWC just around the corner.

What are you looking forward to the most? Are you excited about a certain player who has made a SR squad?

 

[JayBlaze]

Seta Tamanivalu for the Chiefs. He was the best player in the ITM Cup, be interesting to see how he goes at Super Rugby level playing outside of SBW and Cruden

 

[smartcooky]

I am disappointed (and frankly.., p¡ssed-off) that SANZAR has been forced to abbreviate the Rugby Championship (before that the 3N) because of the RWC.

The Rugby Championship is the Premier Division of annual world rugby competitions. Why should we have to compromise the integrity of our competition every four years? Its time the NH took their fair share of the load and the sacrifice!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Seta Tamanivalu for the Chiefs. He was the best player in the ITM Cup, be interesting to see how he goes at Super Rugby level playing outside of SBW and Cruden

Yep I'm also very excited to see what Tamanivalu can do. With some of the All Blacks likely to be rested in the first couple of weeks I'm expecting a Chiefs backline of Pulu, M McKenzie, Gear, Ngatai, Tamanivalu, Lowe, Horrell with guys like Weber, D McKenzie and TNW coming off the bench.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I am disappointed (and frankly.., p¡ssed-off) that SANZAR has been forced to abbreviate the Rugby Championship (before that the 3N) because of the RWC.

The Rugby Championship is the Premier Division of annual world rugby competitions. Why should we have to compromise the integrity of our competition every four years? Its time the NH took their fair share of the load and the sacrifice!

What does that even mean? The Six nations is schedules at a time where it couldn't possibly interfere with the Rugby World Cup, the rugby championship on the other hand is. The last four Rugby World Cups have been held in the September/October/November period and all of the northern hemisphere ones at that time of the year too. This shouldn't have been a surprise, so there's no point getting angry about it.

If you don't want the World Cup to interfere with the Rugby Championship then hold it earlier in the year.

 

[smartcooky]

What does that even mean? The Six nations is schedules at a time where it couldn't possibly interfere with the Rugby World Cup, the rugby championship on the other hand is. The last four Rugby World Cups have been held in the September/October/November period and all of the northern hemisphere ones at that time of the year too. This shouldn't have been a surprise, so there's no point getting angry about it.

If you don't want the World Cup to interfere with the Rugby Championship then hold it earlier in the year.

Originally, RWCs hosted in the NH were a month later (1991 ran 03 Oct to 02 Nov, 1999 from 01 Oct to 06 Nov). These were dates that suited everyone in both hemispheres and they worked perfectly well until someone in the iRB had a brain-fart and decided for no good reason (but in reality probably because of incessant bleating from the French) that the 2007 tournament would be moved forward to Sep/Oct in 2007. SANZAR wanted the iRB to move the RWC back to its original NH spot beginning the 1st week of October, and the iRB seemed happy to comply, but PRL jumped up and down and chucked their their toys out of the cot.

IMO the RWC, being the pre-eminent international tournament should take precedence, and both the 6N and the RC should be played in full. Domestic leagues are third tier and third in importance they should have to fit in around the international tournaments. That domestic leagues under the control of PRL and the LNR are now being allowed to dictate what international teams should do and when they should play is very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.

From our end of the world, I would far rather see the Super 15 abbreviated than the Rugby Championship, but I think the NH domestic leagues should also have to take their fair share of the financial hit from a reduced programme. I expect the NZRU, SARU, ARU and UAR to all be fully compensated for lost revenues from the loss of two rounds of the RC this year.

 

[ENZED-88]

It's a World Cup year so personally my interest in the youngsters will take a backseat. I'm more interested in seeing if the banged up old vets can recapture form, carter, woodcock, nonu. I'm hoping Carter will push Cruden and nonu can win back his spot. I hope the blues look after Mealamu so the old fart is ready for the WC. Lots and lots of questions soon to be answered, Messam or Luatua? What will a year do for young bucks like tuipolotu, Barrett an Fekitoa? Will TJ Peranara live up to his potential? On a domestic level will the blues have a crack this year?( as a child of the 90's my early memories were Auckland being the powerhouse of NZ rugby now sadly for us Jafa's we watched our team turn from that to the pile of **** it is today).

 

[TRF_heineken]

Originally, RWCs hosted in the NH were a month later (1991 ran 03 Oct to 02 Nov, 1999 from 01 Oct to 06 Nov). These were dates that suited everyone in both hemispheres and they worked perfectly well until someone in the iRB had a brain-fart and decided for no good reason (but in reality probably because of incessant bleating from the French) that the 2007 tournament would be moved forward to Sep/Oct in 2007. SANZAR wanted the iRB to move the RWC back to its original NH spot beginning the 1st week of October, and the iRB seemed happy to comply, but PRL jumped up and down and chucked their their toys out of the cot.

IMO the RWC, being the pre-eminent international tournament should take precedence, and both the 6N and the RC should be played in full. Domestic leagues are third tier and third in importance they should have to fit in around the international tournaments. That domestic leagues under the control of PRL and the LNR are now being allowed to dictate what international teams should do and when they should play is very much a case of the tail wagging the dog.

From our end of the world, I would far rather see the Super 15 abbreviated than the Rugby Championship, but I think the NH domestic leagues should also have to take their fair share of the financial hit from a reduced programme. I expect the NZRU, SARU, ARU and UAR to all be fully compensated for lost revenues from the loss of two rounds of the RC this year.

For me it's a double edged sword situation.

Yes, I think the NH are getting an advantage in that their international teams play more games than the SH teams. But with that, there's also the chance of having more injuries. And matches between the SANZAR teams are usually brutal.

What irks me is that the June internationals have also fallen away so the SANZAR teams will only have the RC as preparation before the WC. SA and ARG will play each other again after the RC and before the RWC.

So in essence SA will play 4 games prior to the RWC. And I wonder if it's a good or a bad thing?

 

[Shaggy]

For me it's a double edged sword situation.

Yes, I think the NH are getting an advantage in that their international teams play more games than the SH teams. But with that, there's also the chance of having more injuries. And matches between the SANZAR teams are usually brutal.

What irks me is that the June internationals have also fallen away so the SANZAR teams will only have the RC as preparation before the WC. SA and ARG will play each other again after the RC and before the RWC.

So in essence SA will play 4 games prior to the RWC. And I wonder if it's a good or a bad thing?

That's a good point, as is the loss of revenue ... The RC from a competitive competition stand point will probably lose a bit of credibility too, if it goes down the same route as the Trinations did prior to the last one, with resting players/ using them as trial matches

 

[TRF_heineken]

That's a good point, as is the loss of revenue ... The RC from a competitive competition stand point will probably lose a bit of credibility too, if it goes down the same route as the Trinations did prior to the last one, with resting players/ using them as trial matches

I don't know if many players will be rested during the RC. SA and NZ are going to rest a bunch of players during the Super 15 season, so it would be a bad idea to rest them during the RC too... And I doubt that they will use the 4 games they have before the RWC as trial matches. It's bad timing to do that just before the RWC. I think it would be better to get the guys to play together who will be playing in the RWC, so that they are used to one another and shake off any rustiness they might have.

 

[goodNumber10]

That's a good point, as is the loss of revenue ... The RC from a competitive competition stand point will probably lose a bit of credibility too, if it goes down the same route as the Trinations did prior to the last one, with resting players/ using them as trial matches

it's a world cup year though, everyone takes a hit..... the 6nations sides lose the summer tours and the 3/4 games during November + Barbarians etc.... so there is revenue loss for everyone except the Host nation.

Additionally why doesn't the SH truncate it's Super Rugby Season or play the TriNations over the course of the tail end of the Super Rugby Season - so international players are away from the competition like they are for the pro12, top14 and premiership?

Plus the 6nations teams play in March, then get a friendly in August - they don't really get any benefit of extra games as their is 6 months between the 6nations 2015 and the World Cup, plus their players all go back to domestic and European competition so squads inevitably change between 6nations and World cup and sometimes drastically.

The RC teams come straight off the back of the PREMIER international competition apparently (lol) with settled squads so really the whole set up (timing etc...) actually favours the RC teams.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The World Rugby Rugby World Cup is the obvious big one. This one feels to me like the most open one yet? I feel there are 5 teams in it with a shout (NZ, SA and England the more obvious ones but Ireland and Aus right in it IMO) and then France are France of course.

With the favorable draw for the abbreviated Rugby Championship I really feel SA need to take this one back; it'd actually be embarrassing not too with it being right there for us with what comes down to a very lopsided draw favoring SA and Aussie. I'm hoping we'll see a number of guys back and in form (FdP, F Steyn, Malherbe, PsdT, Louw, Alberts) to claim their space for the RWC squad as well as hoping a few encumbants recapture form (particularly Le Roux but Habana, Etzebeth and BdP are key players who have not been in their best form of late..).

Stormers have me excited for the first time in a good while and should have confidence coming in off a CC ***le win. I really feel they have the right balance now with an exciting and young backline and a settled pack whereas it has been a class but aged backline and good but rookie pack the last 3 years. Depth is decent, Gert Smal has been a breath of fresh air ITO adding to the game plan. I have 3 fears though; we don't have a world class 9 or 10 which I think will hamper us in the play-offs (which I fully expect we'll make). Will we fall back to our old patterns throughout the tournament? Will the injury curse strike again? Either way I am backing our guys to make it to the semi's and hoping it happens for us on the day, two weeks in a row from there..

 

[Shaggy]

it's a world cup year though, everyone takes a hit..... the 6nations sides lose the summer tours and the 3/4 games during November + Barbarians etc.... so there is revenue loss for everyone except the Host nation.

Additionally why doesn't the SH truncate it's Super Rugby Season or play the TriNations over the course of the tail end of the Super Rugby Season - so international players are away from the competition like they are for the pro12, top14 and premiership?

Plus the 6nations teams play in March, then get a friendly in August - they don't really get any benefit of extra games as their is 6 months between the 6nations 2015 and the World Cup, plus their players all go back to domestic and European competition so squads inevitably change between 6nations and World cup and sometimes drastically.

The RC teams come straight off the back of the PREMIER international competition apparently (lol) with settled squads so really the whole set up (timing etc...) actually favours the RC teams.

Loss of revenue isn't really my point, although it's linked to my point about credibility. If you have some SANZAR coaches implying that the results of the competition doesn't matter in RWC year, and fielding experimental sides like before last RWC, it doesn't really encourage people to watch, and will in the end cause a loss of revenue due to the lack of quality of the product.

The RC is the SH sides premier competition (i guess it could be argued that its the premier competition as in recent years its had the top three teams in the world as per the WR rankings, competing in it)

Anyway compared to Super Rugby and the other domestic comps, and it's where the bulk of the money to fund rugby comes from. It's relied upon, and so compensation is always an issue in RWC year. While its true that all nations take a hit, the SH sides take more of a hit, because the RC, unlike the Six Nations is shortened, and they lose the June tours.

Players are rested during Super Rugby already, and as for shortening Super Rugby season, I'd imagine its not done because of TV rights and loss of home game revenue to the franchises. Anyway, that's Cooky's point anyway, I think, that the international game shouldn't suffer at the expense of the franchises and clubs, and that the clubs and franchises should have their calendars moved to accommodate international rugby.

 

[smartcooky]

Additionally why doesn't the SH truncate it's Super Rugby Season or play the TriNations over the course of the tail end of the Super Rugby Season - so international players are away from the competition like they are for the pro12, top14 and premiership?

In the absence of having the RWC at a better time of year (one month later like it used to be) this is what I would have done.

Dropping the second round of derby fixtures (i.e., the return matches) would shave four weeks off Super Rugby. That would leave enough time to start the RC four weeks early and get the whole competition in with a week to spare, perhaps even time for a couple of warm up matches too.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Loss of revenue isn't really my point, although it's linked to my point about credibility. If you have some SANZAR coaches implying that the results of the competition doesn't matter in RWC year, and fielding experimental sides like before last RWC, it doesn't really encourage people to watch, and will in the end cause a loss of revenue due to the lack of quality of the product.

The RC is the SH sides premier competition (i guess it could be argued that its the premier competition as in recent years its had the top three teams in the world as per the WR rankings, competing in it)

Anyway compared to Super Rugby and the other domestic comps, and it's where the bulk of the money to fund rugby comes from. It's relied upon, and so compensation is always an issue in RWC year. While its true that all nations take a hit, the SH sides take more of a hit, because the RC, unlike the Six Nations is shortened, and they lose the June tours.

Players are rested during Super Rugby already, and as for shortening Super Rugby season, I'd imagine its not done because of TV rights and loss of home game revenue to the franchises. Anyway, that's Cooky's point anyway, I think, that the international game shouldn't suffer at the expense of the franchises and clubs, and that the clubs and franchises should have their calendars moved to accommodate international rugby.

Yeah, I have never understood the concept of sacrificing the international tests, while the domestic season goes unscathed. It would have made a lot more sense if they shortened the Super Rugby season to ensure that the RC goes on like normal in preparation for the World Cup. I know in SA and AUS it might be a problem because the players are contracted to their unions, but in the end it is to benefit the nation, and a World Cup Winning players makes a much more lucrative opportunity for the clubs if they were to trade him after the RWC...

 

[goodNumber10]

Loss of revenue isn't really my point, although it's linked to my point about credibility. If you have some SANZAR coaches implying that the results of the competition doesn't matter in RWC year, and fielding experimental sides like before last RWC, it doesn't really encourage people to watch, and will in the end cause a loss of revenue due to the lack of quality of the product.

The RC is the SH sides premier competition (i guess it could be argued that its the premier competition as in recent years its had the top three teams in the world as per the WR rankings, competing in it)

Anyway compared to Super Rugby and the other domestic comps, and it's where the bulk of the money to fund rugby comes from. It's relied upon, and so compensation is always an issue in RWC year. While its true that all nations take a hit, the SH sides take more of a hit, because the RC, unlike the Six Nations is shortened, and they lose the June tours.

Players are rested during Super Rugby already, and as for shortening Super Rugby season, I'd imagine its not done because of TV rights and loss of home game revenue to the franchises. Anyway, that's Cooky's point anyway, I think, that the international game shouldn't suffer at the expense of the franchises and clubs, and that the clubs and franchises should have their calendars moved to accommodate international rugby.

Move it where though?

The Premiership for example is already starting nearly two months late to accommodate the World Cup, so it's unfair to say we should move it any further to accommodate the RC, the global calendar is packed enough as it is, and the SH teams want the incoming tours in 2016, so moving the NH season back any further will impact on the quality of teams sent to the SH in June 2016.

The NH competitions are taking a massive hit over the course of 2015 our clubs are losing revenue and we lose the EOYT, I think it's only a difference of 2 test matches between SH and NH teams plus w're truncating our Domestic season so as to not compete with the World Cup - something the SH teams do not have to do due to when it falls.

European Rugby has made a string of compromises, and rightly so, but it's unfair to ask them to make more for the sake of a competition that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

New Zealand has been more stitched up by the draw for the RC than the WC to be fair... they lose more tests than everyone else.

***I'm conscious we're getting a bit off topic***

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The LV= is being suspended for next season, isnt it? Apparently that's a very big earner for clubs, due to sponsorship and then the prize money is the biggest in Europe (so presumably the world?) - big hit for the English/Welsh clubs right off the bat.

If you started the WC any later then you'd also have to mess with Euro Rugby as there'd be clashes there.

 

[goodNumber10]

The LV= is being suspended for next season, isnt it? Apparently that's a very big earner for clubs, due to sponsorship and then the prize money is the biggest in Europe (so presumably the world?) - big hit for the English/Welsh clubs right off the bat.

If you started the WC any later then you'd also have to mess with Euro Rugby as there'd be clashes there.

I think so. Didn't know the prize money was big in the LV it's more than the RCC?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think so. Didn't know the prize money was big in the LV it's more than the RCC?

Aye,
Not seen actual figures but I remember Diamond, O'Shea and Mallinder all saying at one point or another that winning the LV= is worth more than Europe.

 

[smartcooky]

Move it where though?

The Premiership for example is already starting nearly two months late to accommodate the World Cup, so it's unfair to say we should move it any further to accommodate the RC, the global calendar is packed enough as it is, and the SH teams want the incoming tours in 2016, so moving the NH season back any further will impact on the quality of teams sent to the SH in June 2016.

Start the Premiership/Pro12/Top 14 at the usual time, or earlier, and suspend it during the World Cup. Its not much to ask that they do this once every four years. We already do this every year in Super Rugby because NH clubs/Unons refuse to allow their players to tour a few weeks later in July for the SH Winter Tours so that we can complete our domestic season. This also results in us having to compress the ITM Cup with double rounds and no bye rounds because the late finish of Super Rugby doesn't allow enough time to play it out fully.