The end of Richie McCaw, George Smith and Schalk Burger?

Discussion in 'Tri Nations 2009-2011' started by savundra92, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. savundra92

    savundra92 Guest

    Hi and thanks for reading this thread. After watching the Tri-Nations this week, I have been having doubts whether or not Richie McCaw, George Smith and Schalk Burger are the best openside flanker's in the world anymore. Please dont be confused when i say Burger because no. 6 in South Africa and the USA i think is openside whereas usually no. 7 is openside everywhere else. This Saturday Springbok Heinrich Brussow supposedly outplayed All Black McCaw in the breakdown, something that Wallaby Smith and fellow Bok Burger could never do. Which means Heinrich Brussow must be better than Schalk Burger. Despite the fact Burger won the 2004 irb player of the year, he has had an appaling super 14 season. I also believe Dewald Potgieter has played better than him at openside. I know McCaw will not be at his best coming back from injury but Brussow also outplayed him when the Cheetahs played the Crusaders in the Super 14 this year. George Smith is a brilliant player but he was never able to beat McCaw and I hear there are two competitors for his jersey, Force players Matt Hodgson and David Pocock. Pocock outplayed McCaw in the 08 season of the Super 14 when the Force played the Crusaders. And Hodgson was the Force player of the season with Pocock coming third. Although Hodgson prefers the blindised jersey that may be competed with by Richard Brown and the returning Rocky Elsom who is known as the most influencial player in world rugby. And I think soon Smith and Burger will disappear out of the picture, I think Burger already has. But with McCaw, i still think he is the best New Zealand openside. I hear Luke Braid is a one to watch (Chiefs?). He is Daniel Braid's (ex all black openside now plays for reds) younger brother. Is there any other competitors after McCaw is finished? However i doubt that will be anytime soon. Thanks very much and please leave your opinions.

    And another thing where are Lelia Masaga and Victor Vito. They are better than Rokocoko and So'Oialo.
     
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  3. smartcooky

    smartcooky Guest

    One swallow does not a summer make!!!
     
  4. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Aug 3 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Tell that to Morne Steyn...
     
  5. savundra92

    savundra92 Guest

  6. Nickdnz

    Nickdnz Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savundra92 @ Aug 4 2009, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    No. McCaw I thik is still better as both a player and a leader figure. So'oialo is a better loose forward then Vito as Vito is better runner but not as large work rate. I don't think that an average season is enough to say that they are not as good yet.
     
  7. [​IMG]

    Unihemisphere thinking here
     
  8. Flux

    Flux Guest

    McCaw is yet to hit full form. I think he plays his best when So'oialo is playing alongside him well. Neither of these players are fully fit, I don't think. I'd expect much better performance by McCaw in coming tests when both he and So'oialo hit better form.

    Heinrich Brussow looks to be a great player in the making, however.
     
  9. Fushitsusha

    Fushitsusha Guest

    George Smith has never outplayed Richie McCaw?

    Not true... there have been several matches where Smith has come out on top and was definitely the better player in the early stages of their careers, but it's true that McCaw has been consistently no. 1 in that position since around 2004/2005

    However, Smith was the best openside in the Super 14 this year... and took out ANOTHER Australian Super 14 player of the year award...

    Pococok was also completely schooled by Smith when the Force beat the Brumbies this year...

    And none of the other opensides in Australia will take over from Smith while he's still around...

    It'll be interesting to see what happens when Smith takes on Brussow this weekend...
     
  10. Nickdnz

    Nickdnz Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fushitsusha @ Aug 4 2009, 07:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Is that hard to win? :p
     
  11. gingergenius

    gingergenius Guest

    Brussow is certainly having a fantastic season, and probs on form would make the 7 shirt in a world XV.

    However, Brussow has only done it for a season. McCaw, Smith and Burger have all been world class for more time than that.

    What's more, Brussow is an out and out fetcher. Classic number 7, like Martyn Williams, Neil Back etc. The other 3 are so diverse that they could also play 6. So Brussow, in the form of his life, is atm world King of the breakdown, but there have been countless times when I've sat back and watched McCaw and Smith be absolutely awesome in the breakdown and all other aspects. Hardly the end of them!
     
  12. esoj

    esoj Guest

    some people on this forum still think mcCaw is the only 7 or loosie that cheats at the breakdown and the refs don't penalize him enough so going by that mcCaw is still easily the best 7 in the world! :D
     
  13. TheBokke

    TheBokke Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Aug 4 2009, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Tell that to Morne Steyn...
    [/b][/quote]


    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Mccaw is still the best and George second, however Brussow has been playing very well of late. Don't forget Mccaw has looked human lately because he is playing behind a back peddaling tight five. All players from 6-15 look great behind a solid tight five winning the set-pieces and collision points.
     
  14. Melhor Time

    Melhor Time Guest

    Over the past year or so the best in this position has been Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse & France). I think George Smith may be on his way to a slow and painful death, just like Phil Waugh. Is Pocock's time approaching? Dusautoir vs McCaw at the World Cup was victory to the Frenchman. Interesting that none of the three 3N stars were as good as he or Akapusi Qera at the only tournament that counts.

    On Saturday, McCaw was indeed outplayed by Brussow but it was just one game and McCaw was out for quite a long time injured. I hope for good things from Brussow. He won't put his fingers in others eyes like Burger for starters! The less of Burger the better.
     
  15. Fushitsusha

    Fushitsusha Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Aug 6 2009, 02:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    You obviously haven't been paying attention...

    George Smith has been the Wallabies best player so far this year... and won his 4th straight Australian Super 14 player of the year award...

    He also completely outplayed Dusautoir with a MOTM performance against the French...

    He'll still be in the starting lineup for the Wallabies come the next World Cup...
     
  16. Melhor Time

    Melhor Time Guest

    It was the end of a very long season for Dusautoir which started in August 2008. He has played two matches vs New Zealand. Smith had a break following Super 14 (no final or semi final) and did not play all 160 minutes vs Italy either. Dusautoir played all season, all tests and Heineken Cup quarter finals. He played the Top 14 quarter final vs Clermont then got on a plane for New Zealand to play two tests there. A far larger workload. Did you see France vs Australia in November 2008? Dusautoir was the best forward on the field that day and by quite a large margin. David Skrela can be thanked for losing the game for France. Dusautoir got the best of Australia that day and the best of New Zealand in October 2007.

    Smith is 29. I don't think he will at 31 be the force he was at 23 or 25. But thats just me. A very good player but not better than Dusautoir.
     
  17. Fushitsusha

    Fushitsusha Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Aug 6 2009, 03:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

    Smith is possibly in the best form of his career... and I doubt that's going to change over the next two seasons...

    And I believe he did play all 160 minutes against Italy... but I'll need to double check that...

    Anyways, I find the excuse that Dusautoir was 'tired' to be complete rubbish after being one of the most dominant players against the All Blacks in previous weeks and then getting completely owned by Smith...

    I rate Dusautoir very highly but I don't think he'd be in the same league as Smith or McCaw...
     
  18. Tomsey

    Tomsey Guest

    MaCaw, Smith and Burger (to a lesser extent) are still the best open side’s in their respective countries. Brussow and Pocock are on the rise and are highly likely to succeed the former as the next generation of great southern hemisphere number sevens. However I doubt that they will be able to do it on their own terms. As long as George Smith wants to keep playing he will keep Pocock on the bench. Brussow might have more of a chance at unseating Burger but his experience will probably be the deciding factor. As far as a heir for MaCaw is concerned, there is no outstanding candidate. Kieran Reed and Tanerau Latimer have been used when he was injured but neither stood out. I think its a bit premature to say it’s the end of Smith, Burger and MaCaw just because there is finally some competition for their jerseys.


    As for Dusautoir. It is hard to make comparisons because northern hemisphere seven’s play a more all round type of game to their scavenging southern counterparts. But put it this way. I would have any of the SANZAR openside’s in my team before I put Dusautoir in it… :D :D :D
     
  19. Nickdnz

    Nickdnz Guest

    I would rate the closest player to McCaw in New Zealand is the very under rated Scott Waldrum, it is such a shame he got injured when he did, as I think he is a world class open side that hasn't been given the oppertuinities.
     
  20. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Aug 13 2009, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    But he is SOOOOO Fat! I always think he looks like a prop when he runs. He could be the best prop on earth! But yeah, he is a fatty.

    EDIT: I'm thinking of Thomas... are they related?
     
  21. cyRil

    cyRil Guest

    Martyn Williams.
     
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