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The greatest of the pro era?

B

Bullitt

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http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,1...5592556,00.html

15 Christian Cullen (New Zealand) - Nobody has yet mastered the art of surreptitiously slipping into an attacking line and then tearing out of it for a score like the former Hurricane and Munsterman. Unbelievable pace was hidden in this long and languid stride that left you gaping every time.

14 Doug Howlett (New Zealand) - The record Super 14 try-scorer, New Zealand's record try-scorer... that's the kind of guy you want on the wing

13 Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland) - Europe's rugby statesman finally added the Heineken Cup and a Grand Slam to an already-impressive list of achievements last season. Good enough to re-invent his game after age sapped his pace, he has become one of the all-round greatest ever.

12 Tana Umaga (New Zealand) - Ironic, considering his partner is the man who accused Umaga of crocking him out of a Lions series with a spear tackle. But it's the same Umaga who rushed to Colin Charvis' aid when the latter had been knocked out on New Zealand turf, and who once famously responded to a refereeing call of heavy no-arm tackling: "we're not playing tiddlywinks here mate!"

11 Rupeni Caucaunibuca (Fiji) - How can you leave out Jonah and Bryan Habana, never mind Shane Williams or even Christophe Dominici!? But the Fijian with the flawed temperament did things on a rugby field that nobody else will probably ever do. Just put his name into You Tube and watch.

10 Dan Carter (New Zealand) - a three-way tie between Carter, Wilkinson and Stephen Larkham if we were honest. But the team needed a goal-kicker as well as a playmaker, so Carter's total points were just higher than the other two. The greatest ever?

9 Gus Pichot (Argentina) - Again, how do you leave out Gregan, who has the most Test caps of any player, or the scintillating Joost? But Pichot brought qualities to scrum-half play, so often in adversity and so often with the extra responsibility of leadership through the adversity, that neither of the others had. We always wonder what his talents would have done for a team like New Zealand, but his rugby is so responsible for Argentina's accession to senior Test status that we'd not have it any other way.

8 Lawrence Dallaglio (England) -
Another close-run thing, with Sergio Parisse snapping at Dallaglio's heels, but the Italian's blotted disciplinary copybook - we know Lol is no angel, but he never gouged - saw him relegated to second. And let's face it, would you not like to go into battle with Dallaglio on your side?

7 (openside) Richie McCaw (New Zealand) - Undoubtedly the greatest exponent of openside play there has been. George Smith deserves a mention, and maybe Heinrich Brussow will eclipse McCaw in a few years, but until then the All Black captain is in a class of his own.

6 Richard Hill (England) - The most unsung of all English rugby heroes, but he'd have it no other way. If you didn't see him much, it was he was forever at the bottom of the ruck, putting limb and digit where others feared to put but many trod...

5 Martin Johnson (England) -
The biggest, darkest and most brooding of the driving forces behind England's World Cup win. We reckon the moment when he hoisted Bill was the first time he had smiled on a rugby pitch! Now bringing that menace to England's national team, Johnno takes the captain's armband in this team as well.

4 John Eales (Australia) - This one will have Saffers everywhere raging; how can we leave out Victor and Bakkies? Because Johnno's meaner than Bakkies, and because Victor was not nicknamed 'Nobody' as Eales was (because Nobody's perfect), despite his obvious talents. We felt Eales offered perhaps just a little more grunt. We're now running for cover...

3 Carl Hayman (New Zealand) - This one was much easier. Hayman has been peerless at tighthead for some time now - New Zealand still miss him.

2 John Smit (South Africa) -
Has now won every honour going in the game except for the Super 14. We know he plays tighthead now, but for a solid anchor in the scrum, an extra dose of leadership and some pinpoint line-out throwing, Smit's the man - just edging out Rafa Ibañez.

1 Rodrigo Roncero (Argentina) - The Argentine beefcake was so close to being our player of the 2007 Rugby World Cup after a series of stellar performances. Discipline remains an issue, but you'd be hard-pushed to find a number one in the world who has contributed so much so regularly to his team's loose play.

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Apart from Caucau (Who I's swap for Lomu), I think that's a nigh on perfect rundown.
 
I pretty much agree with your team. But I would swap Caucau with Lomu, Pichot with Fourie Du Preez, Umaga with Tim Horan and Roncero with Os Du Randt (What a legend!!).
 
Hmmm, not one french player...

No Os du Randt? Please...

Jonah Lomu > Every winger ever. Heck, i would even swap Caucau with Habana.

Tim Horan > Tana Umaga

Wilkinson (In his prime) > Dan Carter

And OMFG where is Gavin Henson? >_>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Sep 29 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
And OMFG where is Gavin Henson? >_>[/b]

Henson is in "Potential" top players list. Lomu is a must. Somebody find a Frenchman worthy of the list and put him in there.
 
1. Os du Randt (Legend)
2. John Smit (Strenghts: Great leadership and line out throw ins, Weakness: Brad Thorne)
3.Carl Hayman (Best prop in professional rugby's history in my opinion)
4.John Eales (No question about his spot)
5. Martin Johnson (though Matfield makes a strong case)
6. Jerry Collins (Richard Hill...yeah right)
7. Richie McCaw (Burger and Smith are also up there but not quite as good)
8. Lawrence Dallaglio (For the English's sake, however if you include Zinzan Brooke then Dallaglio may take a back seat.)
9. George Gregan (Over Pichot by some length, sorry Argentina)
10. Andrew Mehrtens (maybe Carter, but his career isn't over yet. Wilkinson also makes a strong case)
11. Jonah Lomu (Caucau is good, but there is no doubt Lomu brought a new appeal to the sport)
12. Tana Umaga (Tim Horran was good, but please...Tana had it all, speed, precision, leadership and strength.)
13. Brian O'Driscol ( Is a prat, but with undoubtable talent)
14. Habana (again Howlett was good, but I rate Jeff Wilson over him as well as Rokocoko. But Habana takes the spot)
15. Christian Cullen (The only other real contenders is Jason Robinson and Chris Latham, but Cullen is better in my opinion

That is my list, if anyone really cared lol. Quite simular however a few changes. There is a slight New Zealand bias in this, but I tried to be as partial as I could. If I may be so bold, which french player deserves to be in there. In my opinion Jauzion is the only player who makes a claim, and I believe Umaga and Horan all make better cases.
 
Well then, here's mine:

1. Os du Randt (Duh)

2. John Smit (Possible the greatest captain the game has ever seen.)

3.Carl Hayman (Duh)

4.John Eales (Brilliant player, character, and holy crap, a goal kicker!)

5. Victor Matfield (Best line-out specialist in rugby history)

6. Richard Hill (Hardest worker on-field i had ever seen. Not the flashiest, but definitely the gutsiest)

7. Richie McCaw (Duh)

8. Zinzan Brooke (Class player, who had it all. One of the few 'complete' players)

9. George Gregan (*******, but deserves the spot)

10. Jonny Wilkinson (Still in my view, the best 10 ever to play)

11. Jonah Lomu (The only man to ever truly 'revolutionize' the sport)

12. Tim Horan (Dangerous every time he touched the ball. EVERY TIME! Besides, Umanga is highly overrated)

13. Brian O'Driscol (The magician!)

14. Bryan Habana (The biggest sensation since Lomu. Every opponent fan cringes when he touches the ball.)

15. Christian Cullen (Talent, speed and vision second to none. One of the most exciting players to watch!)


... I cant think of a Frenchie...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 29 2009, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
6. Jerry Collins (Richard Hill...yeah right)[/b]

Collins better then Hill???? You must be joking.

It's only testament that the holy trinity isn't on the backrow and McCaw is in instead of Back.
 
More-or-less agree with what's been said. Except I don't recognise the name Tana Umaga at all, so I'd put someone else in there, only I can't think who. (Note the resistance to say Scott Gibbs. I've been working on that for years.)

I'd also have Lomu and then either Bryan Habana or Shane Williams on the other wing. (Shane in his top form can beat any Rugby player in the world. Habana is the same.)

My other change would be putting Gethin Jenkins in the front row. He gets around the pitch as if he was a flanker, but scrummages like nothing on Earth. Is also disciplined, which is always vital.
 
You've got to have Lomu in. He was like the Tiger Woods or Roger Federer of rugby, completely untouchable.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Sep 29 2009, 04:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 29 2009, 04:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
6. Jerry Collins (Richard Hill...yeah right)[/b]

Collins better then Hill???? You must be joking.

It's only testament that the holy trinity isn't on the backrow and McCaw is in instead of Back.
[/b][/quote]

I have to agree here. Collins is good but even with one leg God/the king of kings/HRH/Richard Hill would make mincemeat of anyone who stood before him and he did too. Even while hopping along in 2007/8 he showed the world by Marty Hollah will never be an All Black and he cowed his opposite number in Munster in the HEC Semi-Final.

Absolutely phenominal guy. If you don't know who God is, you obviously weren't looking hard enough.

Why isn't he in our hall of fame?!
 
I think Neil Back and Richard Hill are good players but since I'm from NZ I think Collins and McCaw are better players then Hill and Back, depends where your from I guess.

I'm also sure Collins and McCaw have more test victories then Back and Hill. Also I'm sure Collins and McCaw have beaten Back/Hill more times then Back/Hill have beaten them.

Come to think of it England dont really beat us (NZ) much at rugby. I honestly cant remember the last time.

Makes you wonder why you'd turn around and say so and so (Back/Hill) is better then them (Collins/McCaw) but so and so dont win much against the others when they play????...Does that make sense?
 
15. Cullen
14. Caucaunibuca
13. O'Driscoll
12. Horan
11. Lomu
10. Carter
9. Gregan
8. Dallaglio
7. McCaw
6. Hill
5. Matfield
4. Johnson
3. Hayman
2. Ibanez
1. du Randt

Randwick you're an idiot. Given that Hill/Back/ Dallaglio performed as a back row up until 2003, and Collins and McCaw had their heydays AFTER then, I hardly think head-to-head is relevant. What's more, Hill and Dallaglio were key members of a team that was better than ANYONE who was playing against them at the time. So the NZ back row containing Collins and McCaw WAS inferior at that time.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Randwick Kingfisher @ Sep 29 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I think Neil Back and Richard Hill are good players but since I'm from NZ I think Collins and McCaw are better players then Hill and Back, depends where your from I guess.

I'm also sure Collins and McCaw have more test victories then Back and Hill. Also I'm sure Collins and McCaw have beaten Back/Hill more times then Back/Hill have beaten them.

Come to think of it England dont really beat us (NZ) much at rugby. I honestly cant remember the last time.

Makes you wonder why you'd turn around and say so and so (Back/Hill) is better then them (Collins/McCaw) but so and so dont win much against the others when they play????...Does that make sense?[/b]

Because Hill and Back won one particulars winners medal together that McCaw and Collins never will.

Oh, and they were the cornerstone of the 2001/2002/2003 dominant Englant side - funnily enough, they stop playing and England fall apart.

Co-incidence perhaps?
 
Now, now, guys lets not call people idiots..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Randwick Kingfisher @ Sep 29 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I think Neil Back and Richard Hill are good players but since I'm from NZ I think Collins and McCaw are better players then Hill and Back, depends where your from I guess.

I'm also sure Collins and McCaw have more test victories then Back and Hill. Also I'm sure Collins and McCaw have beaten Back/Hill more times then Back/Hill have beaten them.

Come to think of it England dont really beat us (NZ) much at rugby. I honestly cant remember the last time.

Makes you wonder why you'd turn around and say so and so (Back/Hill) is better then them (Collins/McCaw) but so and so dont win much against the others when they play????...Does that make sense?[/b]

I'm happy to let others debate Back & McCaw because both are awesome players and the same goes with Collins and God. But sadly, Collins isn't a god, he's a Kiwi but Hill is a God. He's also the King of Kings by the way. He's also the Game as well. Did I mention God is better than Collins? I don't think I did..

And for the issue of Collins & McCaw and how many times they beat Back & God? Well, I believe they only faced each other once and that was in 2003 and the result was:

All Blacks 13 - England 15 in Wellington. And in that game, God had to fight off both Collins AND McCaw because Back had to go sit on the naughty step!

Obviously, you wouldn't remember one of the most traumatic games in living memory for All Black fans but I'll forgive you ;)
 
This list seems to be juggling between achievements in rugby and impact on rugby.

My list:
1) Os du Randt (2 World Cup medals. LEGEND)
2) John Smit
3) Carl Hayman
4) Martin Johnson
5) Victor Matfield (The most complete and dominant lock to ever play rugby)
6) Richard Hill
7) Richie McCaw
8) Zinzan Brooke (Peerless. Absolutely peerless)
9) George Gregan (I hated him but damn he was good, really good. Joost is SO close to nudging ahead)
10) Dan Carter
11) Jonah Lomu
12) Tim Horan (Amazing, nuff said)
13) Brian O'Driscoll
14) Doug Howlett
15) Christian Cullen

---

Howlett is the only selection not sitting well for me. Habana could come in for him and you wouldn't lose anything. Howlett was has been more consistent and has been more well rounded for longer though.
It's crazy that Os wasn't in the original list, I'm shocked really. This whole article nearly lost all it's credibility at 1!
It feels so wrong to leave out John Eales, I really admired him. But Matfield has been peerless for so long now, you can't leave him out.
 
Well I can't remember if Phillipe Sella played Professional rugby (for anymore than 3 years or so) but I'd consider him at centre.

I'm slightly surprised I've the first to question Smit at Hooker. Probably a fear of getting one's head bitten off by a saffer.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and one of the greatest captains ever. But how can he be the greatest pro Hooker ever if he got shoved out of his position with South Africa.

There's 2 players that I'd suggest as options.
1. People were searching for French players and didn't think of Raphaél Ibanez? Played rugby for nearly 20 years at a top level and about 90 caps for France. Brilliant player and also a brilliant Captain.

2. Maybe it's because I'm Irish but....Keith Wood anyone? How many hookers score 4 tries in a match? How many hookers win the IRB International Player of the Year. How many hookers slide through lovely dropgoals. Great captaining to rival Ibanez and Smith. Often shone as a great player in a rather mediocre Irish squad in a Sergio Parisse like way. Another worthy choice.
 
OMFG!

Where is O'Gara???



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Sep 30 2009, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
More-or-less agree with what's been said. Except I don't recognise the name Tana Umaga at all ...[/b]

OMFG!


For the French, a lot of familiar names, but I'd only pick two:


Christophe Lamaison - brilliant skills and judgment, played rugby's version of Austerliz ... just one example from the best performance ever by an outhalf:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hI9UIKNGrc8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hI9UIKNGrc8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



And Abdel Benazzi, although more at 8 than lock. Competition too hot in the boiler room.
 
Is it the Irish love for these French Rugby teams that makes scared shi*ess of them every year?

I only ever have good memories of them playing (except against Ireland...which is usually a nightmare).
 
Any "greatest" team where Keith Wood qualifies for selection, and isn't picked is nothing but a failure.
















Also, where the f*** is Stringer and ROG!?!?!
 

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