The Irish Backrow

[Feicarsinn]

What with the 2014 6 Nations thread being somewhat overrun by this topic, perhaps it's best we dedicate a thread to it.#


We're in an interesting place regarding what we want to do with the extra shirt over the next two seasons. Heaslip and O'Brien seem to be a long way ahead of the rest of the pack, so it's going to be fun to see where the 6 (or possibly 7) jersey ends up. We're sort of blessed in the fact that we have lots of guys capable of doing a job internationally, but unfortunately no one has yet to really put their hands up.

Imma have some fun with depth charts:

Number 8

Jamie Heaslip - 29 - Leinster
Robin Copeland - 26 - Cardiff(Munster bound)
James Coughlan - 33 - Munster
Roger Wilson - 32 - Ulster
Jordi Murphy - 22 - Leinster

Openside

Sean O'Brien - 26 - Leinster
Chris Henry - 29 - Ulster
Tommy O'Donnell - 26 - Munster
Shane Jennings - 32- Leinster

Blindside

Peter O'Mahony - 24 -Munster
Iain Henderson - 21 - Ulster
Kevin McLaughlin - 29 - Leinster
Rhys Ruddock - 23 - Leinster

Obviously not including the injured god.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I feel ashamed as it took me a minute to realize who you were talking about in the last sentance!

Ive never seen this run as I missed the quarter final and just saw it there now, but I truly believe Henderson, even over Ferris, is Ireland's future 6. Even with Ireland's second row problems I feel it would be a very bad idea sticking him in the second row.
If only there was a way to fit O'Brien, Ferris and Henderson in one back row.

 

[lucky number 7]

Heaslip Goes to France. Robin is back home.(almost)

He'd do a job at no.8 certainly.

6-POM
7-SOB
8-Copeland

Although I've heard through the grapevine that Seanie was giving France some very serious consideration , farm or no farm

 

[Peat]

If only there was a way to fit O'Brien, Ferris and Henderson in one back row.

Play Henderson at 8.

I don't think that's an absurd suggestion. He was a schoolboy 8, so he's probably got the control at the base, and his main talent is running the ball. Certainly, some of those 6s are going to have to move. Wilson, Coughlan, they'll be done soon enough. Copeland may never be at that level, he's got a lot going for him but he's got things to prove and learn. Murphy - don't know enough about. McKeon at Connacht, like what I've seen of him, but I think Ireland could use at least one of POM/Ruddock/Hendo establishing themselves as an 8. Besides, if the Beast That Walks returns, they can all forget about 6 for a while.

Short term, I believe the debate should be about who works best with O'Brien. I don't think Heaslip should be included as a definite-pick on terms of performance level, but he's about the only 8 at that level who's not on the downward slope, so he basically is a definite-pick.

 

[profitius]

I'd say its too late for Wilson, Coughlan and Jennings unless theres an injury crisis. Rhys Ruddock is starting to live up to his potential now and will put McLoughlan under pressure. Jack Conan (8) and Leavy (7) look like big prospects.


I'm not 100% sure about Copeland until I see more of him. Good ball carrier though.

 

[ruggabee]

Agree with turning Henderson into an 8. He's got it all to be very successful there. Powerful ball running and good in the line out as well. Guys in the mould of Picamoles and Reid are my favourite 8s who do this well. I think Henderson is in a similar mould. I'm sure even if he's rusty at the base of the scrum he'd catch on pretty quick. He'd be wasted in the line out. I want to see him running off set pieces or being involved off set piece play. Stuck in the second row he wouldn't have that freedom.

 

[lynam1104]

When is Henderson back? I was hoping he would get a shot at taking the Irish 6 jersey this season unfortunately the toe got in the of that, but I really would like to seem him given a real go.

 

[neiliog93]

Definitely too late for Coughlan, Jennings or Wilson. Unfortunately, their ships have sailed and all of them deserved more caps. I think after the Autumn the starting back-row pick themselves. People on here have been criticising O'Mahony based on statistics and I would have been one of them until very recently. However, he was excellent against Samoa and part of a brilliant backrow display against the AB's, a real pest at the breakdown. Statistics are like a bikini: what they show is important, but what they hide is absolutely crucial.

6.O'Mahony
7.SOB
8.Heaslip

The real scrap then is for the no.20 jersey. All of Ruddock, McLaughlin (who had a good Autumn too), Henry (if fit) and Henderson (if fit) have a very good shout. As good as McLaughlin was, I'd probably go with Ruddock. He was immense against Northampton when picked ahead of McLaughlin and has looked really, really good this season.

 

[lynam1104]

Definitely too late for Coughlan, Jennings or Wilson. Unfortunately, their ships have sailed and all of them deserved more caps. I think after the Autumn the starting back-row pick themselves. People on here have been criticising O'Mahony based on statistics and I would have been one of them until very recently. However, he was excellent against Samoa and part of a brilliant backrow display against the AB's, a real pest at the breakdown. Statistics are like a bikini: what they show is important, but what they hide is absolutely crucial.

6.O'Mahony
7.SOB
8.Heaslip

The real scrap then is for the no.20 jersey. All of Ruddock, McLaughlin (who had a good Autumn too), Henry (if fit) and Henderson (if fit) have a very good shout. As good as McLaughlin was, I'd probably go with Ruddock. He was immense against Northampton when picked ahead of McLaughlin and has looked really, really good this season.

I agree that POM is being a little bit harshly judged he's never been my favorite player bur has impressed my much more this season. However I feel the general feelings on here on his weakness are valid but a little overstated. On Ruddock he was immense against the saints and if he can keep that up he could nail down the Leinster 6 jersey for a long time but thats the first time I've ever really seen him produce on the big stage so i'm not sure if he should be talked about in this regaurd yet but he dose do the traditional 6 role great.

 

[osullie6]

I agree that POM is being a little bit harshly judged he's never been my favorite player bur has impressed my much more this season. However I feel the general feelings on here on his weakness are valid but a little overstated. On Ruddock he was immense against the saints and if he can keep that up he could nail down the Leinster 6 jersey for a long time but thats the first time I've ever really seen him produce on the big stage so i'm not sure if he should be talked about in this regaurd yet but he dose do the traditional 6 role great.

One thing that I think people forget is just how young Ruddock is. He turned 23 less than a month ago, so hopefully has a lot more developing to do yet. I think it's partly because he's been in and out of Leinster's Rabo side since he was 19 years of age. He's been around for so long that people think he's older than he is.

 

[lynam1104]

One thing that I think people forget is just how young Ruddock is. He turned 23 less than a month ago, so hopefully has a lot more developing to do yet. I think it's partly because he's been in and out of Leinster's Rabo side since he was 19 years of age. He's been around for so long that people think he's older than he is.

Probably the fact that he looks it to, I was aware of that hes so young which is why I'm quite hopeful he'll do the job because I'm not a huge fan of McLaughlin I don't think he offers much more than others outside of the lineout, which can be an issue at times though.

 

[Groundhog]

We have stacks of backrow talent in the provinces to the extent that lads like Butler and Stander get very little game time for us. I think Copeland should be tried as a second row as he was in Rotherham. It's a position we lack depth in and he has the power. Might be worth a shot.

 

[big ginger 8]

Probably the fact that he looks it to, I was aware of that hes so young which is why I'm quite hopeful he'll do the job because I'm not a huge fan of McLaughlin I don't think he offers much more than others outside of the lineout, which can be an issue at times though.

His clearouts and carrying in tight are better than many in the country which while maybe not standout, would allow SO'B and Heaslip more freedom.

EDIT: I misread the post I quoted, I was talking about Ruddock.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't rate Mclaughlan too highly, he plays a role in the lineout slightly better than any other options but he really doesn't pack a punch in attack or defence.

6. O'Brien
7. O'Donnell
8. Heaslip
20. O'Mahoney

would be my backrow if we had all our players fit and at reasonable form, excluding Ferris. I don't think it would make any change to O'Brien's game when playing 6 again and Tommy O'Donnell at top form is a ****ing beast, I reckon if we had this backrow the only team in the world that could challenge us for raw power in the backrow would be South Africa. Henderson is unlucky to miss out on the bench spot but in case of an injury to Heaslip... actually no just O'Brien, that's unlikely too, O'Mahoney and O'Donnell probably compliment each other better.

 

[Gavin]

What do people make of Dougall as a potential Ireland international? I have been pretty impressed by him

 

[Groundhog]

He's an honest to god 7. Not a carrier like some of the others but a great technical player.

 

[ruggabee]

He's a bit small though. Turning 25 in a few months so I don't think there'll be much more he can add to his frame. Technically good but just wasn't born with the athleticism to be pushing for an international starting spot.

 

[neiliog93]

I don't think Dougall is good enough for international rugby yet. He's a textbook 7 and fulfils his role honestly, but I'd agree with rugabee that he's a little underpowered.

Completely disagree re McLaughlin, he's easily Leinster's biggest hitter in defence and is a good, if not brilliant, ball carrier. For all SOB's ball carrying and Heaslip's general effectiveness, neither smash players in the tackle with great regularity. McLaughlin does this more than any other Leinster player (are you a season ticket holder?). I remember Dan Tuohy of all people being on the receiving end a couple of times last season. He's also Leinster's best backrow lineout option, probably vying with Henderson and POM for the best backrow lineout option in the Irish context. All that being said, I'd still go with Ruddock on the bench for reasons outlined in my previous post.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think Dougall is good enough for international rugby yet. He's a textbook 7 and fulfils his role honestly, but I'd agree with rugabee that he's a little underpowered.

Completely disagree re McLaughlin, he's easily Leinster's biggest hitter in defence and is a good, if not brilliant, ball carrier. For all SOB's ball carrying and Heaslip's general effectiveness, neither smash players in the tackle with great regularity. McLaughlin does this more than any other Leinster player (are you a season ticket holder?). I remember Dan Tuohy of all people being on the receiving end a couple of times last season. He's also Leinster's best backrow lineout option, probably vying with Henderson and POM for the best backrow lineout option in the Irish context. All that being said, I'd still go with Ruddock on the bench for reasons outlined in my previous post.

Yup.

 

[lucky number 7]

He's a bit small though. Turning 25 in a few months so I don't think there'll be much more he can add to his frame. Technically good but just wasn't born with the athleticism to be pushing for an international starting spot.

Get him on a bit of Hosea Gear​.